I am abandoning all my principles..What do you think of my boot camp?

[Filyjonk]

I am a hardcore attatchmentista. However, I have not had a full night's sleep in 2 1/2 years, since ds was born. Now I also have dd who is 8 months.

Last night, ds refused to go to bed til 9.30, then dd refused til 10.00. Then they took it in turns to wake hourly til 6.30, when both decided they had had enough sleep and needed to play.

We co-sleep and dd is bf.

My new cruel plan is this:

1. Ds gets himself off each night. We will go in, read stories, sing, kiss goodnight, then he's on his own. Will leave the door open for reassurance.

1. Me + dd are off into the spare room. I am going to feed her two hourly for a few days, then three hourly, etc. The rest of the time I will be cuddling her. I will not be operating heavy machinery until I've sorted this out.

I just feel so bad about this...but I am sat here on my 3rd cup of coffee. I want so much to do proper attatchemtn parenting but I have had 3 claims on my car insurance in the past year and my premiums are getting unaffordable.

The only time I've had more than 2 hours uninterupted sleep is when in labour with dd and they gave me pethidine.

So...am I mean and cruel?

Not cruel at all. Sounds as if it needs doing. Make sure you wear a thick nightie when cuddling not feeding dd - she will smell the milk!

Goof point tracy. Thanks. It just feels like I am ignoring/neglecting them, I guess. I am a second generation ap parent-my mother is going to be shocked.

I can really identify with this.

I started to give ds water rather than bf during the night at this age and he stopped waking up as much.

At 2 1/2, we have just done the rapid return thingy with him (with dd we did the one where you gradually get closer to the door when putting them to bed, have forgotten the name!) and it has worked. The first couple of nights were awful - we were awake loads, just putting him back in bed but, since then, the change has been remarkable. He is even quite proud of himself now and often greets me in the morning by telling me he has stayed in his own bed.

We had been watching House of Tiny Tearaways and I have to say that it insipired us! It also helped us to see that ds's crying was not distress but anoyance that he wasn't getting his own way.

We previously co-slept, BTW, and still do on occasion with dd - we found it was best to get her used to her own bed first, so as not to confuse, but she sometimes has bad dreams etc. so we have her in bed.

Sorry ro ramble on for so long!

Nothing mean and cruel about it. Learning to settle oneself is an important life skill.

If you'd had claims on your insurance b/c you're too tired to be driving, imagine how you'd feel if you caused a fatal accident and went to jail for it.

That should motivate you!

Thats a big motivator, expat. They're all silly things, like reversing into bollards. I've actually pretty much stopped driving, but I have an OU tutorial every fortnight in the middle of nowhere which is causing the problem.

The water idea is great, clayhead. I think I'm going to go cold turkey with ds though and just leave him in his room, door open. We eventually did that last night, and he slept in the end.

Agree - what it you had a bad accident with the children in the car? You all need a good night's sleep, it's fundamental need.

mean and cruel? god no! children need sleep. its not good for them to be waking so often. IMO at that age they physically need that big chunk of uninterrupted sleep to function properly during the day.

Good luck! Stick with it. It will be a few days of hell (or weeks? what the hell do i know) but you'll get through it.

I can't tell you how good it feels to hear your little one wake in the middle of the night...freeze with horror....and breathe a sigh of relief when they chatter to themselves for a bit then drop off again.

maybe you could assign one child to each of you to make it easier?

I'm going to give ds to dh as ds sleeps better.

But I have to be careful as, sadly, dh does need to drive to work.

This is the real problem-I'm afraid to get any more tired than I am now, cos there's two of them to look after, and over a long day so I've been putting off doing this. I actually don't know how to cope with being any more tired. Dd must be drinking neat caffeine already (did give up coffee over Xmas when had help btw-she still doesn't sleep). No family nearby, and anyway they are a bit useless and at the root of much of this guilt.

what evening routine do you have for ds? Does he want to stay up cos his little sister is still up and he's jealous? I find that if I don't get ds asleep early enough he won't settle properly as he's overtired and then it's a nightmare. Easier to get him into his cot before he's tired and then let him chat and sing to himself for 20 mins or so.

Actually he doesn't really get jealous of dd, no. He kind of accepts that her sleeping is erratic. Its balanced by her having a 3 hour nap in the day which is mummy and Filyboy time.

He has currently dinner, 20 min play, milk, story, then mummy sings him to sleep. No baths-that hypes him up.

Do you know, I'm so tired I can hardly write! And I've got a TMA due in. It actually feels like I'm drunk. If only.

Not cruel at all. Sounds like you will be a much better, safer Mum for getting your children to sleep when they are supposed to.

You can still love your children and have a strong attachment with them without them dictating sleep times to you.
I really hope it works for you. It is very bad for you to be so tired that you feel drunk.

Could you put him for some afternoon sessions at nursery - then you could nap when dd naps and he'll knacker himself ready for an early bed time?

He's starting kindergarten in May. Should ease the pressure a bit.

Dd has actually gone to sleep on her own (tired for some reason, I suspect...hmm...). Ds is off to swim with daddy for an hour, I'm off to get some sleep. Thanks for all your comments, I'm going to be a cruel mummy tonight!

Filyjonk - I was at the car bit. I think you will be doing your children a favour if they start to get a decent night's sleep. Although if you get DD sleeping better at night the 3 hour nap might reduce slightly. Honestly this really will be better for ALL of you - it is not about you being selfish.

Hi FJ
I coslept/bf my dd till she was nearly 2. It was lovely but it had to end. I needed my own space and was sick of being woken up thru the night.
I was calm but strict, moved her to a new bed (you are a big girl now etc) and every single time she got up I settled her calmly and firmly. She cried for a couple of nights but got the message fairly quickly
She has almost never slept in my bed since -- though always comes in in the mornings !
Good luck

Hi all. Though I'd give an update on the boot camp.

It actually worked not too badly. ds did go to bed, and to sleep. He later woke for two hours and cried for mummy (dp was right beside him). As in "Mummy, mummy where are you mummy, filyboy needs you." Which was vile. But then he went to sleep again.

Dd I put down awake (after a feed) and held her/stroked her while she screamed herself to sleep. Fun. But she then woke 2 hourly through the night, was fed only on 2 occasions (when clearly doing hunger not tired cry) and the rest she did eventually get herself to sleep. It was getting noticably shorter as night wore on.

So I think this is working. Now just need to stick with it. Many thanks to all who replied.

Oh well done filyjonk. Very hard work but it does sound like progress.

Well done FJ. I'm sure it will pay off. Was very soft with my dd when she was a baby, but have found myself getting progressively stricter with her as she gets older. (When I say strict I mean relatively speaking! Not actually sending her up chimneys etc...)
I really think that from toddler-age onwards they crave routine and boundaries, they may fight against it intitially but it's really what they need.

Excellent, FJ! Keep going. You'll start to feel so much better and that will help you stick with it. Kids need sleep! You're doing them a favour.

Ta for support.

I've not had that much sleep but feel so much more awake. Its fab! I played trains this morning with ds instead of sitting staring into space.

Helped a lot last night to think about the sound of dd cry. realsided it was her tired cry, not her hungry cry. so not starving her as I had feared.

It took me long while to recognise different cries - but once sussed you can tell when they are taking the piss. My prob was that even tho they start off taking the piss - they can work themselves up to be really upset and my ds gets really hot at this point - so I try and catch him early enough to calm him quickly.

hey fab start FJ, hope tonight is ok, and look forward to reading an update

Tonight-ONE feed required for dd (lots of waking, but tired cries) and ds slept through.

Sadly however I have no excuses left and must now start an essay I've been putting off.

You did better than us then!!

Hope last night was good too, and tonight is

Did you get yor essay done?