drop the nap? CIO? how to get 20 month olds to sleep for more than 9 hours at night?

[MamaChocoholic]

dts are 20 months, normally awake between 5 and 6, nap for about an hour, 12-1, tea at 6, stories at 7, sleep around 8.30pm (occasionally 7.30, but lately it's been later and later).

Is this enough sleep? They wake frequently through the night, and we still co sleep/bf later in the night so I get some sleep at least. But I'm (again!) at the end of my tether. I don't get downstairs to tidy till 9pm, then am up umpteen times in the night, and up for the day at 5. Back at work FT, absolutely knackered, and get no time to relax with dp in the evenings.

Should I try dropping the nap? They would be seriously grumpy beyond about 2pm, but perhaps they would get used to it, and sleep longer at night? dd has occasionally skipped her nap at nursery, and though very grumpy in the evening, has collapsed fast asleep as soon as she got the chance.

Should I try getting tough about sleeping through? Complicated because we have given away ds2's cot and he sleeps on a mattress on the floor. He went very anti cot for a while, and with reflux not yet solved would cry himself to vomiting every time we put him in. So, now the reflux bit is better, but he has the run of the room if he doesn't want to sleep, and running about poking his sister/being put back on mattress is a great game .

Something needs to change. Just so deep into sleep deprivation not sure where to start, or how.

You say you're up in the night - how many times and when?
I think you need to get tough with your DS about the running around, and maybe introduce a toddler bed. At that age I think I did shutting the door (which they hated) or turning off outside lights unless they stayed in bed. Could separating them be the ultimate threat?

On the actual quantity of sleep, no, 10 hours sleep is nothing like enough, but dropping the nap is not the answer - you need to address the quality of sleep.

Do you have blackout curtains?

My son dropped to a 9 hour night around aged 2 and he needed to drop the nap. He only ever had 10 hour nights and now aged 3 still does.

They could well be ready not to nap. Children are all different.

But I guess you need to stop breastfeeding at night in order to get yourself an unbroken night's sleep. Perhaps start a thread on night weaning for help with that.

They are old enough to learn very quickly, what ever method you use.

You can make changes an get more rest! Good luck.

I would agree with DilysPrice that 10hrs total sleep does seem a bit on the low side at that age. I have a 22 month old DS & he isn't settling very well at nights & has been waking earlier. We've gone through several phases of this so far & the one thing I have found that helps is to push the nap later. It is very hard to do while they are waking early, but basically, too early a nap can lead to early waking & it is likely to continue while they keep napping at 12pm. Around this age my DS needed to be awake a good 6hrs before his nap, so if you want your DTS to wake at 7am the nap needs to be nearer to 1pm. I also think that given how early they are waking & how short the nap is, their bedtime is too late.

IIWM I would gradually push the nap later b 10-15mins every 5 days/week until it starts nearer to 1pm. I would also aim to have them asleep for 7.30pm latest, nearer to 7pm if the nap is only 1hr. You may have to employ some supernanny style tactics to get DS in bed & I think DilysPrice's suggestion to shut door/blackout room is a good one. They need to know bedtime is bedtime & that you mean business. Is that something you are willing to try?

thanks for advice. they have a blackout blind. haven't tried night weaning through my own laziness. bf is quickest and quietest means of getting them back to sleep. plus ds1 continued to wake until he was past 2yo, despite being weaned completely before 15mo. they wake every 2-3 hours when well, but ds2 has a cough so is more frequent right now.

not sure about pushing nap later. if they nap after 1 then it can be hard to get them asleep before 9. bedtime used to be earlier, but they just bounce about, literally, until tired enough to sleep. they are like a tag team, so if one does something and gets told no, the other copies, and repeat.

they panic if I leave the room even in the day, particularly dd, so I am reluctant to use that tactic at night. but the room is very dark, no lights, and a cd that we use only at bedtime playing. what are supernanny techniques for getting ds2 to stay in bed? and do you think a bed would be better than a mattress? I am quite able to sit in a chair and ignore them, even at their most screamy, but this seems to have no effect.

You have my sympathies OP, but I personally think for your own sanity you need to night wean (once your DS is recovered from cough). At that age they can't possibly need feeding in the middle of the night, and you clearly need more sleep.

I personally would offer water, cuddles, anything except boob for nighttime waking, and with a bit of luck pretty soon they will get out of the habit.

However, this is with the caveat that I didn't have twins and didn't do extended bf, so am starting from a very different place. You really need some advice from someone with vaguely similar experience (but not a hardcore attachment parent who will say that waking every two hours for year after year is what nature intended).

oh I agree they don't need it at night! it's just the easiest way to resettle one without waking the other or ds1. and I worry that I would wean then to get more sleep and it wouldn't bloody work, like with ds1. ds2's cough is pretty much constant, although it goes through worse and not so bad phases.
sigh. I know I sound uncooperative. don't mean to. but finding the energy to actually do something to resettle instead of just lying down and letting them latch sounds like hard work...

I need to make some change though. away for a couple of nights next week. will plan with dp when we get back to see about nightweaning. there goes dd, awake again :(

Well to add my tuppence again - how about starting with improving the nights before night weaning? My 10 month old still feeds once or twice a night and I breast feed but this is so so much better than a few months ago and would feel okay to you I expect for now. I got her to improve to this by making sure she didn't feed totally to sleep and letting her cry at bedtime and going in an out every couple of minutes. An trying to settle her in the nights without feeds - but nothing much really.

So how about trying to get things easier without totally committing to night weaning etc...?

And I am going to say it again as it seems unusual - a few children only sleep for ten hours at night. My dd has at least 12 hours total, more if only a little nap. But my ds has had ten hours in total from birth. He's lucky to not need a lot of sleep. And it did drop to 9 when he needed to cut his nap....