Sat outside DS' room AGAIN

[BambinoBoo]

DS was a great sleeper and self settler as a baby then at 11 months I went back to work and he's never been able to settle himself again. For almost 3 years DH or I have had to sit outside his room until he falls to sleep. We have tried him crying it out and just can't let him get in that state so that's out I'm afraid. But does anyone have any other advice please. He takes around an hour to get off to sleep every night, keeps coming out saying his needs a wee. Never goes. Brings his pillow out. Needs a different teddy etc etc. We are phasing out his naps but even when he doesn't nap it's the same. I know that I sound selfish and have it good compared to many here as he more often than not sleeps through till 5.30 - yes, he's an early riser too - but DH and I hardly seem to get an evening together and I'm do fed up now I am getting really ratty with him.

Not sure what to do. Any advice greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Mine is 4.5 and still struggles to self settle. We found that saying "Im just popping downstairs to speak to daddy/ feed the cat" etc helped to at least get us off the landing and we always went straight back but started making the time downstairs longer and longer until she had fallen asleep.
Now we have to tell her that its bedtime and I am going down stairs and I will be back up in 2 minutes to check on you and then go up every 2 minutes again gradually increasing the time until she is asleep. We rarely have to go up more than a couple of times and she is calm about it all.
Or the alternative is to use your landing time as reading time! I got through some great books in the months I was sat at the top of the stairs

Things we found helped were an exactly the same bedtime routine every time, down to always reading the same book. A groclock, this helped loads. A long bedtime routine with lots of the routine done in his bedroom, including putting in jimjams and everything, so plenty of time with us in the bedroom before bed. A baby gate on the door, but that may just wind yours up if he's not used to it.

And bribery. When we changed to a big boy bed I bought a gift, wrapped it, showed him it and explained that it was for him if he stayed in bed all night and didn't get up. He did as told first night and asked for the gift in the morning.

We made a big deal about staying in the bed, no getting up. I still tell him that if he's a good boy and stays in bed till the sunshine I will take him somewhere nice the next day. This works most of the time now.

The groclock has helped him understand when it is ok to get out of bed, be it bedtime or morning, and bribery has helped him want to comply with the clock.

Good luck, when bedtime doesn't work it's very draining.

If it continues another avenue is to look at what he is eating, he may be reacting to something and it's keeping him up.

One thing that has helped me is to realise that attitudes to sleep are cultural, not biological. Afternoon naps for 3 year olds or late bedtimes are unusual in our culture. Yet, continental children are often up in the evenings, and in hotter countries siestas are for everyone.

I think what I'm saying is that there's no 'right' answer. Only what works for you as a family, including what works for the child in question.

12hrs a night is an oft-quoted magic number. What's interesting when you look at sleep studies is that very few people or children require the average, there is a range that is totally normal. Some need more sleep, some less. It also varies at different times for the same child.

Just cuddle them to sleep. The young of other mammals don't sleep alone!

Just to say that sometimes making a big deal about their sleeping through the night can be counter-productive. It makes my kid more trenchant. Sometimes kids can be such annoying fuckers.

DS is 3.8. I still breastfeed him to sleep but sometimes he doesn't want milk or he's messed around too long and I'm too cross to lie down with him. I sit or lie in/on the bed with him and basically tell him to lie still and no talking or I'll go downstairs. If he starts to move or talk then I count to 3, if I get to 3 I will go downstairs. Sometimes I just have to move slightly away from the bed and he starts promising to lie down so I get him to show me he can and then go back to sit/lie with him. Other times he continues being hyper, so I go downstairs for a bit and leave him to it and come back up later (or send DP up.) Once I get him in the non-moving, non-speaking state he's normally asleep within minutes but I find I have to be really strict on any fidgeting or even funny looks because if he's doing that then he isn't relaxing, really.

He's just recently got to the point where if I can catch him when he's tired enough I tell him I need to go to my bed now and you need to stay here, and he will say "No I need you here" but then go to sleep by himself anyway. He will ONLY accept this if he's very tired and pretty much at the point of falling asleep, or sometimes it has worked occasionally if I've suddenly "needed the toilet" or DP has told him that I'm coming up in a minute and he needs to lie still in his bed - I just leave it a ridiculously long time and go up and check and he's asleep.

Just adding I have sometimes used the 'just off for a wee' excuse, and he has fallen asleep while waiting for me to return.

So many responses. Thank you. Re the napping, we are trying desperately to get him out of them but he is resisting. Some days he won't nap at all, then fall asleep on the way home from nursery in the car which I can't stop. We are working with the nursery on this though and if he needs a nap its for no longer than 30 mins. I have discussed with DH and I think we a going to try stories and cuddles, plus perhaps some audio books if he needs longer. I feel so guilty. I know he's a sensitive one and perhaps he just needed his mum, although I had the "rod for your own back" ringing in my ears. Thanks all.

Don't feel guilty. And ignore the "rod sayers." If he goes to sleep quickly being cuddled, then cuddle him. You won't still be doingbit when he's 18!

Oh I meant to say that we tried the don't get up till the lights come on with a timed string of lovely car lights. He'd come in beforehand to get us up to watch the lights together.

Thanks seeker. I feel less stressed just in the hope of trying something new. I hope DS will be less stressed too as all this tension at bedtimes can't be good for him.

Whatever gets the most sleep/peace for the most people is the right thing to do.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&biw=1280&bih=687&tbm=isch&tbnid=90OdsGNmA7oLLM:&imgrefurl=www.the-instructor.com/update.html&docid=7OMHItcby0b2nM&imgurl=www.the-instructor.com/eyes.jpg&w=413&h=283&ei=bU7iT5_zFcfL0QW_0aXCAw&zoom=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you said 'car lights' I was imagining this! I was about to say no wonder the poor kid's scared to be on his own at night!

Hope you find a solution, and do take it gently. And yes, ignore the rodsayers.

Ds wash like this. I was still sitting by his bed stroking his hair until he was asleep at 4 (and I only managed to graduate from cuddling him to sleep because I was so heavily pregnant I couldn't easily get on and off his bed without disturbing him). I realised I had to get him to self settle before the baby came. I introduced a set number of stories and songs (the same songs in the same order each night helped) and did a series of popping downstairs trips to reassure him nothing bad would happen. After a few weeks I was able to leave him still awake.

Hey. We used to have an awful time with dd1 who's 2y 9mo now.

The best thing we have started to do, is ban naps through the day, and when she goes to bed, we pat her back, and massage her legs to wind her down.
Another tip I can give is to walk in and out of his room, as if to say you are popping to the loo etc, but come back ( a bit of a trust thing).
Failing that, keep him up, and ignore him when he wants attention, and carry on doing what you do in the evenings.
Oh yes, and also avoid eye contact when he's playing up.

Out of interest what is he like at going to bed for everyone else - baby sitters etc?
DS is younger and doesn't sleep much (9-5.00) but is now sleeping through and has just started being able to be put down awake (instead of having to be fed until he's fast asleep) - we have tried the withdrawal method in the past (when he woke in the night) but never found it worked. The method i have found the best is telling him i am going away and will be back in 5 mins/10 mins etc

DH always cuddled DS to sleep (he'll be 5 next month) and honestly it did turn into a rod, but that's not always the case! :) If it works, it works.

Our problem was that he was so used to Daddy sleeping with him, if he woke up in the middle of the night and DH wasn't there, he'd come to our room in tears (or anger, usually...he's not at his best in the middle of the night!) and climb in. He's a restless sleeper and no one was getting any sleep and we were all at each others' throats. Plus, often DH would fall asleep in bed with DS, and I'd hate to wake him, so we'd get no time together and he would be grouchy that he hadn't gotten anything done, plus achy from folding his 6'5" self into DS' bed. :)

Now we are doing bath, then pee, then jammies and teeth, then we all cuddle together on the couch and read stories, do prayers, then it is up to bed (with a little water bottle so the "But I'm thiiiiiiiirsty" thing isn't happening :) ). One of us tucks him in but does not sit or stay, and if he makes a huge fuss he does not get TV time the next day.

The first night was awful, he was furious! But we explained that we all need a lot of sleep and this is the best way. Whenever he fussed we just said "We love you, but it's bedtime. Goodnight." It got a little easier day by day and now he is fine.

Also we make sure to really wear him out during the day but not put him to bed when he's over tired, as he can become almost hysterical, he is so tired. Blackout curtains and fan for white noise have helped him sleep longer in the morning, too.

Good luck! It's so hard when no one's getting enough sleep!

Thank you all. So kind to take the time to respond.

maya at the car lights.

tomverlaine only my mil has ever babysat him and that was a couple of years back, but she would never admit to him not going to sleep for her so I don't know. We don't have family here where we are now and I've not used a babysitter. Friends have offered but I've never taken them up on it because of the sleep issue. Didn't think it would be fair.

It seems that I have a night off tonight as DH is up with DS. They have had stories and were laying quietly but I can hear DS asking for teddies, but quiet again.

Badly need to ditch the day Time nap but get this, I spoke with the nursery today about all this and his key worker told me that shes been asking DS if he wants a sleep. Now, she is with him and will know if he's tired or not, but maybe her asking is putting sleep in his head and he is just saying yes. I said to judge if he needs one and if he does then no longer than 30 mins. We never offer a nap at the weekend, and he only has one now if he's rolling eyes tired.

Oh, I feel your pain. Although my DS is a lot younger at 20 months. If you find a solution do let me know :)