HV recommended CC/CIO for our sleep problems - is this usual?

[GuineaPigMum]

DS is 12 months and we've just had his 12 month review with the Health Visiting team. He's a terrible sleeper and we co- sleep most of the night- through necessity rather than choice. I'm ok with this because it means I get more sleep! The HV recommended that if we wanted to get him to self-settle (as opposed to feeding to sleep) then they could offer advice on CC and CIO methods via their Sleep Clinic. I was quite taken aback. Do all HVs recommend CC/CIO? Previously at a different clinic I'd been told that they would never suggest it since it can be harmful to the baby. I am just curious to know if other mums have been advised to do this or if it is standard practice for HVs?

Yes ime, I've had a few hvs plus a bad sleeper and they all have, although with some supposedly more gentle variations eg staying in the room while they cry.

One of the hvs told me they push it for your sake, so you can get some sleep, which will benefit the family, rather than it being for the child's direct benefit.

Yes, you can even find info on the NHS website.

I was recommended CC by HV and did eventually go down that root and it worked very well for us where nothing else had.
I've never heard anyone anywhere recommend CIO though.
I was anti CC but actually think it is fine now done properly. Your just giving your DC 2-15minutes (tops) windows of time to learn to self settle and then returning to reassure them. If your LO can learn in a different way great but sometimes that's just the right technique for some children I guess.

Stranger - it is for your benefit but I was shocked how much it was also for DS benefit in the end. His character and behaviour really just changed radically once he was sleeping most of the night. He is much less stressed and irritable etc. now he gets enough sleep.

Is your DS waking frequently looking for a boob for comfort to get him back off to sleep?

Three of my babies did this, what we did at 12 months (before that I was happy to cosleeping and feed but was usually pregnant again by them or just fed up) anyway I slept somewhere else, totally out of the picture, when they woke Daddy did the work, he would comfort then, stay with them etc they were never left alone but there was just no boob. First night always the hardest but got a lot easier by the time night 3 or 4 came along they were sleeping through. I stayed out the way for a week to break the association but after that they all slept through.

We still breastfed after that too so it didn't affect that but their appetite went through the roof once they weren't getting midnight snacks!

sweetkitty yes I'm pretty certain he's got used to waking up for a feed and now it's habit. Tbh I'm putting off night weaning even though that's what I want to do because I can't face it. I work full time and I honestly don't think I have the energy. He's quite high needs so im not going down the CC route (he could cry for hours and I can't face that!). I would probably do what you did and send in DH. At the moment he just screams if his Dad goes in, he only wants Mummy. If we could crack it within a week though that doesn't sound too bad. Did you find it hard?

His daytime appetite isn't great either and I'm fairly sure that it's because he's feeding all night!

DS was high needs baby that's why we had to turn to CC in the end. He did cry for say 2hrs first time round but it got us to a more normal situation long term where nothing else would.
Sorry I know CC is just so unpopular but we were at our wits end (I'd sometimes cry about going to bed because it wasn't sleep time just sitting upstairs feeding and patting and dealing with the upset) and DS was the most difficult baby I'd met/heard of in RL at the time so I just like to put it out there in case it works for other high needs babies/toddlers whose parents haven't ever slept!
Definitely pass the buck to DH though to get out of night feeds whichever way you do it!

The Health Visitors have been telling me I should do CC and leave him to cry since he was 5 months old. I just ignore most things they say now and look on Mumsnet!

Sounds like a good tactic scrivette LOL

They do seem to recommend it pretty often. I always just told them DS's sleep was fine (even when it wasn't :() so that they wouldn't badger me about it, because it wasn't something I felt comfortable doing.

Have you tried the No Cry Sleep Solution?

guineapigmum - I don't know if it was because they were older when I night weaned but first night was bad, but the next few nights not too bad then absolutely fine. I remember one DC think it was DD2 45 mins crying first night, 15 mins second then third slept through. It's as if they think no mum no milk no point in getting up.

If you can both take a few days off work start on a Friday night so you can have lie ins the next day maybe take the Mon-Tues off work.

I'm off work next week so DH and I have decided that tomorrow we are going to tackle things. DH will sleep on floor in DS's room and resettle when he wakes. Only problem is, I know he's gonna scream the house down, so how do I stop myself going in whenDH starts getting pissed off (which I know he will after 5 minutes).

Anyone done anything similar?

You have to be strong it's heartbreaking that first night hearing them cry and knowing you could stop it in a minute. But he's not alone, will have someone comforting him, he's not hungry, in pain etc.

I watched a baby whisperer episode where the mum actually went and stayed somewhere else.

Best of luck let me know how you get on

oh yes they always recommend CC. Like BertieBotts i've always said that I was happy with the way they were sleeping (and TBH, sleeping through is unusual in a baby anyway so I was realistic of a babies sleep capabilities), as I didn't want to discuss CC with them because that was not an option for me.

My DC2 is now 21 months, and still night feeding and I am ready to night wean her now. Her appetite during the day is not great either (although at nursery 3 days a week when boob is not an option she eats like a horse, asks for seconds), so I'd like that to improve too, so I'm going to start the night weaning soon I think. I'm always putting it off, as we co-sleep and I don't want to end that yet, and I'm not sure how to stop night feeding if I co-sleep. She could just latch on!
And DS wasn't having night feeds after about 12 months and he didn't sleep through till recently and he is now 3.5yrs! So night weaning doesn't always mean sleeping through I'm afraid.

Sweetkitty thanks for the reassurance. I've been planning what ear plug / head phones combination I could wear to block out the crying, I can't bear it.

Choceyes I realise that I am hoping against hope that night weaning equals sleeping through, but you're right, that's not necessarily the case. Erk!

Anyway, the latest is that we have chickened out. Well, DH has. He's just tried to put DS down without the power of the boob and it resulted in a screaming fit. Now he says he doesn't want to start tonight. He's worried he won't cope with the crying, he finds it equally distressing. Until now it's been me who is the wimp and him saying that 'we need to do something'. So, start tomorrow? Oh dear.

I think this is common practice at sleep clinics/with HVs - which is why I always told them DS slept beautifully. I will not resort to leaving him to cry.

Is your baby on the move yet? DS started sleeping much better once he was walking. You say you can't bear to hear him cry so are considering earplugs - whether this works depends on whether you can't bear the sound of him crying or you can't bear that he is crying, if you're anything like me and it's the second one its not a case of you being 'strong' - it most likely won't work. DS will scream for an eternity if I let him, the same as yours if DH tries to comfort him he becomes inconsolable. I need his support but find it in other ways (he takes him in the early morning if I need an extra hour after a bad night) I don't think it's fair on either of them to let him cry knowing DH can't sooth him if I know I can (if he wants to nurse I mean, not that DH isn't as good as me)

with regards to night-weaning; if your gut is saying you're not ready its probably not the right time. I strongly recommend Dr Jay Gordon's advice - I wanted to do it at 12 months but felt the same as you. At 15 months it was the right time and bar the odd night it has worked very well.

Some babies just don't sleep well, I am sure that they will eventually. Personally I think the best course of action is to do whatever works to give the whole family the most peaceful night. It sounds like you're doing that already. Whenever I've spoken to or read about anyone who's done CIO or CC I know instantly it wouldn't work for us, not only because I don't have it in me to let my child cry but because of the type of child DS is. Once he works himself into a state he becomes almost impossible to calm. I'd rather he knew I was there for him even if I couldn't calm him than leave him to fend for himself. It works for some people but it's not for me. You know if you're OK with it or not, it's one of those things that has to suit parent and child. You'll know what's right for you

12 months is small in terms of sleeping through and nightweaning, still. It probably is going to be distressing if you try to control his sleep in any way just yet. You need to either be prepared to go through that, or accept that this is the way it is for now, although there are ways of managing it. It might work for you to get a single mattress and put it on the floor in his bedroom, instead of a cot. That way you can get in to settle him to sleep and then it's easy to either bring him into bed with you later or for you to climb in with him (I used to do some hot-bedding with DS ) and then sleep there or resettle and come back to your own bed. In some ways this is easier once they can walk as they have to actually get out of bed and come and find you, shortly after starting this DS stopped bothering! He'd come in at about 5am for morning snuggles, although this got later and later until it wasn't happening at all. He's only just at 3.8 accepting being left alone to fall asleep without huge upset, but it only works if he's very tired and on the point of falling asleep.

The other thing was that at that age I found if I went out or for some reason didn't want to give DS milk he just wouldn't fall asleep in bed without it, it was like a totally alien concept to him to lie down without being cuddled up and/or having milk. I used to take him for long walks in the pushchair, and then as he got used to being in the pushchair, just being strapped in there and pushed forward and back seemed to calm him. After a while I could just strap him in and it seemed that this calmed him down enough for him to sleep. It was like if he was in bed he didn't know what to do with himself because there were all these choices, he wanted to sit up, crawl around, look over there, see what was happening out the window. Being strapped in he had no option other than to lie still and he usually drifted off. I used to put him in there while I MNed or watched TV or something and then just transfer him to bed when he was asleep. He still has to be told to lie completely still before he will relax enough to go to sleep!

If he had a babysitter (it was usually my mum) they just tended to either let him stay up until I got back, or watch some quiet TV and have a drink of milk on the sofa and then he'd normally fall asleep there. It helped if this was fairly long after his usual bedtime, but at least I knew he could do it!

It wasn't that bad really. The time was right for us with nos 2 & 3 as the next one was on the way and I needed decent sleep. DH slept in their room on the floor so they had that comfort of never being alone, he rocked them and soothed them, picking up if necessary. Honestly once they realised there was no boob they didn't bother waking. DS (no4) is still in a cot next to me, used to be a bedside cot so extension of our bed for cosleeping. Even know if he wakes I just have to say to him back to sleep and he pulls his little quilt up its very cute.

I've heard a few HVs advise CIO/CC and not bother to ask the mother how she felt about it. I've heard HVs tell mothers that they must night wean and that their babies are getting into bad habits (which is not true, it is normal for BF babies to feed through the night at 12mo).

The important thing is to arm yourself with the information and then based on that, make a decision that suits you and your family, even if it is different to what everyone else does- don't worry about what other people are doing with their babies or what your HV thinks you should be doing, you and your DH are the ones dealing with the night-waking. What works for you?

This is a really good website with information about what is normal for babies.

Thanks for all your kind words of advice. DH and I have decided that it's not the right time to night wean. My instinct says DS isn't ready but I feel under pressure to 'do something' because his behaviour seems so at odds with other babies we know. And I know DH is keen to sleep in our bed again! So we'll do another couple of months and see how it goes. We will have to tackle things by October when I am going away with work for 5 days but DS will be 16 months by then and I'm hoping he'll be able to cope better.