2.2 yo nightime antics - WWYD??

[JoandMax]

DS2 is 2.2 yo and has never slept all night, I'm exhausted!!

Background is he was very poorly as a baby, in and out of hospital, horrific reflux, NG tube fed 3 hourly day and night til 16 months - we did what we had to to survive which was basically having him sleeping on one of us/in our bed, a dummy.....

He had surgery nearly a year ago which helped him massively but although sleep has improved it's still an issue.

I cuddle him to sleep with a dummy, once asleep I put him down in his cot. He normally settles for 3/4 hours then wakes grumbling. We cuddle, give him his dummy abd if that works he goes back in cot for another 3/4 hours. If he gets more worked up we give him a bottle which always settles him again.

On a bad night he can be up hourly, in our bed, restless all night for no apparent reason. Wakes up happy as anything with no after effects!!

During the day he eats well given his history, drinks milk, gets lots of stimulation and exercise etc He normally naps for around 45 minutes in pushchair late morning.

I really don't know to progress to him being able to go down awake and settle himself off to sleep - if I put him awake in his cot he is instantly hysterical and gagging or puking. And I can't bear him crying, he's spent so much of his life doing that where I couldn't help him I find it impossible to leave him like that when I know me picking him up will stop it....

But we all need more sleep, the last couple of years are starting to take their toll on me and I often don't have the energy to do everything he and DS1 (3.10 yo and a dream sleeper!) need.

So, help! What would you do?

When you say he's grumbling - do you think that he has a sore tummy or is he just reacting like a normal toddler in the middle of the night?

How much have you talked to him about staying in his cot etc? It's quite easy to forget how much more they understand than they can vocalise. Is he developmentally delayed at all or is he a fairly standard model 2.2 yo?

Oh, you sound really tired, and no wonder .

Have you tried 'no cry sleep solution' by elizabeth pantley? Really gentle way to encourage better sleep. I can't leave a wee kid crying either. Like you, ds1 was amazing sleeper and ds2 was very poorly and isn't a good sleeper. Listening to him cry brings back bad memories, and it doesn't feel right (though I would never condemn anyone else for doing CC!) but we are making good headway and there hasn't been any crying!

Good luck - it is hard being so tired.

if i was absolutely 100% sure there were no ongoing medical problems causing this and that leaving him to cry would not cause any underlying problems to resurface, I would do that - leave him to cry.

After he's cried for 15 mins or so, settle him and leave. I would persevere and before too long he will learn to settle himself.

This will mean, in a relatively short space of time ( a few nights hopefully) baby will sleep and you will sleep and feel rested and have the energy to deal with the other problems life throws at you.

Did this with two babies, now teenagers, who don't remember being left to cry at all. they just remember a well and rested mum who had the energy to play with them during the day as she'd had her sleep.

Chipping - the grumbling is when he's still semi asleep, I think it's when he's coming into a light sleep and he can't work out how to drift off again if that makes sense? His eyes are always closed he's just rustling around. It can go on 20 minutes or so before he actually cries. He has no tummy trouble anymore abd it's never a painful cry just an unsettled one.... And 8/10 it gets to crying., very rarely will he go back off himself.

I have talked to him about it being his bed and sleeping in it but I don't think he remembers in the middle of the night! We have wondered about doing up his room, getting him a bed etc so a new start and something positive.

Nethuns - I feel exactly the same with the crying! Too many memories and I just can't do it . I will look at that technique

Teri - I wish I could do that but I'm just not strong enough, neither is DH or I'd disappear off and let him do it!

Right - well, it all sounds like normal 2 year old night time stuff and nothing to do with his medical conditions/needs earlier on in his life - so.... I would definitely put him into a bed, make it a lovely Big Boys room and make a Big Transition between babies who wake in the night/sleep with Mummy or Daddy and Big Boys who have beds and stay in them like DS1 (thankfully!!) does.

Then do the return to bed routine - first time go in and say that it's still night time, time to go back to bed/sleep. Then after that just keep going in and putting him back in his bed. Even if you are going back in as soon as you have gone out. Most times this takes about 4 nights, you just have to be prepared to do it 100 times the first night! It's not always that bad, but can be and do not back down as this is what makes it worth them carrying on, if they never get their way then they soon learn it isn't worth it.

Good Luck!!

Oh I really feel for you. My DS (21 months), has not had a good start either and we've spent over four months of his life in Hospital. He was a lot like your son and only sleeping for 3-4 hour blocks. When he moved to only sleeping in 2 hourly blocks I got desperate.

Previously I had been soothing him to sleep in my arms with a bottle, and just redoing this if he woke in the night. I got a Baby whisperer book and read that which gave me the confidence to try her pick-up, put-down method. I probably cheated a bit in that I did his bedtime routine as usual and still gave him a bottle of milk to get him relaxed, but didn't let him fall asleep on it. Then I put him in the cot and patted him etc and stayed with him till he fell asleep. When he woke in the night I gave him a drink of water (from a bottle) and then put him back in his cot and stayed with him till he fell asleep. Oh and I stopped taking him into my bed, which I had previously been doing. I'm still tempted to do that one!

It took a while, and the first three night were rather bleak, but we're getting there and last night he was only up once - a miracle (he's normally still up twice a night). I really think teaching him to self soothe helped us and I wished I'd done it sooner, but I just didn't have the confidence as a result of his medical issues.

The think I liked about this technique was that there was no crying or leaving him alone, tho I hope to be able to leave the room while he drifts off eventually.

I think it would be worth trying the above technique - maybe get a baby whisperer book from your library first? That's what I did so if I didn't like it, it hadn't cost me anything. I think helping your son to go to sleep on his own may help you as it made a massive difference with my own son - and it sounds like we used similar techniques to yourself pre-regime change. It is hard because the books I read assumed I'd have sleeping sorted by my DS's age so you have to try and tailor it a bit. Could you try giving your son a bottle to relax him, put his dummy in his mouth and then pat/stroke him in his cot? I think when you've been helping them to sleep as long as we had you have to just try and wean them off you a step at a time, in anyway you can - even if it's baby steps at first.

All the best, and just give it a go I say. Which I absolutely know is easier said than done - especially after nearly two years (over two years in your case) without a good nights sleep. Unless you've been there I don't think you can understand how wearing it is. Hang in there

Thanks Chipping, it sounds a plan! I think he would love a new room and a big boy bed like DS1 (he idolises his big bro!). He's pretty good at communicating and understanding so I think he would accept some changes alongside it.

Or we had considered them sharing, DS1 doesn't wake up for anything so I doubt would be disturbed. I'm wondering if DS2 would feel more secure with his brother in with him?

Thanks Comely - it's so tiring isn't it?? And you know you need to do something but when you just want sleep it's tough to keep the motivation up! Glad you're seeing some improvements, I think I've got a copy of the Baby Whisperer somewhere so will have a read.

I think maybe a combination of that and Chippings ideas would work - getting him to go to sleep in his room with me there to start then gradually leaving the room and doing a return type thing??!!

I also forgot to mention that I'd change the 'going to bed' routine too. A drink and a story (in his room or in the sitting room, whatever you do with DS1) and into bed, none of this 'soothing to sleep' - it's another change that might be very hard to implement and you might want to relent, but don't - once you have cracked it you will reap the rewards!!

What would DS1 think about sharing his room? It's not just the sleeping is it? It's the being able to have your own stuff and your own space where little brother isn't allowed!

NO no no no no - use this Big Change to a Big Boy to do it all in one swoop! Start as you mean to go on, don't start up another/different bad habit! For the love of sleep, just take the hit over a few nights!! :)

Thank you, I need to be told straight!!

DS1 would like to share, they did on holiday and he loved having DS2 there in the mornings to chat to. They get on really well and both have toys in there at the moment.

So you think - get a bed, big it up and then just put him in at bedtime and leave the room? Then keep taking him back? What do I do if he's crying? Can I cuddle him as I take him back?

My dd2 didn't sleep through the night properly until she was about 2.6 and we put her in the same room as her older sister. She had got in the habit of waking in the night for reassurance, so being able to see her sister was enough for her to put herself back to sleep. They were even in the same single bed for a while, but now they have bunk beds. You can put them both to bed together then, so they don't feel like they are being abandoned when you leave the room. Might be worth a try?

Yep - get the Big Bed, for the Big Boy with the Big Boy duvet etc and make a Big Deal out of it, Big It Up. Tell him between now and then what is going to happen. When it comes to it, read him stories, have a drink etc then time for bed - all lots of fun, Big Boy chat etc Sometimes that alone is enough, if not, then you might need to just do the return to bed. The first night or two speak to him but don't be too cuddly etc , just matter of fact. 'Time for bed DS2' and lay him back down, don't make it too rewarding. After that, silent returns. Ignore the crying.

Also, stop worrying yourself into it being awful, it might be just fine :)