Please someone help, so many sleep problems, I'm just sitting here crying - I feel like I've let her down so badly (5mo)

[zambooloo]

Ok so basically she is a terrible sleeper, day and night. We started off co-sleeping as for the 1st week of her life no one got any sleep. I feel like this was my first mistake, we also made the mistake of just letting her nap on us. I then moved the cot into our room & took the side off so it was sort of attached to our bed (no room for her in our bed & was so worried about rolling onto her). Anyway she gradually starting sleeping so badly with us that no one was getting any sleep - my thoughts were that we were disturbing her. She was literally waking every 20mins and I had to actually cuddle her in my arms all night.

So about 2 weeks ago we put the side on the cot (still in our room) - this was a disaster, still waking constantly so I thought again that maybe we were disturbing her as she slept best before we came to bed. So then we decided to move her into her own room. Since then (1week ago) she just can't sleep at all.

So i feel like a terrible parent as she is just so tired but incapable of sleeping.
She is still swaddled as she just repeatedly rubs eyes, pulls out dummy and gets herself so worked up. She is in largest size swaddle u can find & it's nearly too small so I need to sort this out as don't know what she cab sleep in next.
She has White noise on to help her - although obviously thus isn't actually helping any more.
She will nap in bouncy chair but she is fast outgrowing this too - am really working on getting decent naps too. I thought she had napped really well today but we are in the midst of the worse night ever so I don't know?!?
She always falls asleep in our arms but now always wakes as soon as I put her down. If I put her down awake but sleepy she just works herself up and up until she is screaming.
When she wakes in the night I can occasionally get her to go back to sleep by shushing & patting but she is always awake again in about 20mins.

I just feel like there are sk many problems here, I am totally out of my depth. I just have no idea what to do. I feel like I've totally let her down by creating this situation where she just can't sleep.

It doesn't help that all my friend's babies are sleeping through - I feel so alone. My dp does help a lot (he is with her now) but I'm just so lost.

So sorry this has turned into an essay - any help is do much appreciated. Thank you

Sorry for all typos - on iPhone

Oh and also she wakes at between 5-6 every morning.

We have blacked out her room but no change.

Didn't want to leave you with no replies. I really feel for you -dd3 was a terrible sleeper.
I'm sure you've looked at the obvious things - is she hungry, cold etc Does she have reflux or colic - those sort of things are often worse in the evening/night.
Is there a pattern to what triggers her to fall asleep in the day, and can you replicate that at night?
If it's any consolation there are many many babies who sleep badly, you just hear about the ones who sleep well.
Have you tried baby massage or anything like that?
DD3 was an awful sleeper - I co-slept with her upright on my chest for about 5 months, but she eventually got to sleep lying down.

I used to walk around the room singing twinkle twinkle little star in a whispered voice until she collapsed on my shoulder.

ps I don't think it's a mistake letting her nap on you - if she is feeling unwell, insecure, uncomfortable, then being close to you is the best place possible.

You haven't let her down. You're ok and so is she. You're just overtired. It's very tough early days, but you'll get through it.

I would get some advice from your health visitor or doctor and tell them how you're feeling.

For what it's worth, I found the first year very hard and felt like running away several times. Many people are in the same boat, we don't all have babies who sleep easily through the night, despite your friends' experiences.

Be easy on yourself, it will pass.

OK you all need some sleep, so here's what I'd do

Get rid of the swaddling thing (surely swaddling is for tiny babies to stop them being startled by their reflexes? she is too old at 5 months)

get rid of the white noise - again, not necessary any more (and apparantly not working anyway)

get a futon/mattress and put it on the floor of her room.
You and DD (or DH and DD) sleep on the floor (so there is no danger of rolling off) Also, with just one parent and the baby, it will be less crowded

do this for a few weeks until you all feel human again - sleep deprivation is the pits. When you all caught up with your sleep, you can start to think about moving her into her cot again.

good luck

Thank you all so much for the quick responses - dp got her to slee but she is awake again already. I'm feeding her this time. My friend told me to stop feeding at night but she is hungry I'm sure,.

Has anyone any ideas on how to reduce the amount of night waking? It is about every 20 mins and take me ages to settle her. Is shush/ pat the best thing? How long can this possibly go on for? I know she's only been in her room for a week but when do you think I might see an improvement?

I don't want to give in and go back to co sleeing, it wasn't working anyway and I figure we have to get her in her cot at some point.

Also if I stop swaddling what shall I put her in? Is there some sort of half way thing between swaddle & sleeping bag? Her arms & hands just keep rubbing at her face and she gets so worked up.

Thank you again.

My little girl was the same. Looking back now she was just exhausted and over tired. i had to leave her in crib screaming and go on in every 2 mins to touch her and let her now i was there, then three mins longer, then four mins longer, then every five mins, then every seven mins. Time it by the clock. It will work. Once fed, winded, nappy changed, baby should be fine. just keep telling yourself this. I used this method over two nights and it settled her right down. I was crying too but i had to do something and it worked. She slept like a baby! it may seem cruel but you will be being kind...

She is too little not tI be fed at night, please don't deny her that, a lot of babies need milk at night until at least a year old.

I would put her in a sleeping bag to sleep, you may find she sucks her fingers to help herself, she might be finding the swaddle too frustrating, most recommend only swaddling for first month.

Don't feel guilty, you have a bad sleeper but it will get better, she will grow out of it, her sleep will improve.

Stop swaddling, make sure temperature is right, what temp is your room and what does she wear to bed? Maybe she is too hot? I'm up feeding my dd now, she is sleeping in our bed wearing just a vest, don't underestimate the heat she will get from your body when in bed with you.

5 months is a horrible time for sleep. You haven't done anything wrong, every baby is different and there are no rules. I would do what it takes to get some sleep just now. If there's a chance your baby is hungry I would try feeding.

We found a warmer temperature helped - 18 degrees is recommended but I feel quite chilly at that temperature!

Please don't compare yourself to other people. Some babies sleep well and others don't - it's mostly luck I reckon.

There's a thread in Breast and Bottle Feeding (I think) supporting parents of high need babies, including those who don't sleep well, maybe worth posting there or at least having a read to see how common this is.

It will get better and anecdotally a lot of babies seem to sleep better from 6 months. Some people see an improvement at the same time as introducing solids (I'm not advocating weaning early, it maybe a coincidence!)

I spent many many nights around 5 months BFing most of the night and sitting in bed with baby sleeping on me. It was awful but she got much better after 6 months and is now doing really well in her own room. She has even done six or seven hours a couple of times! So hopefully it will get better for you too and soon.

I personally wouldn't do controlled crying at 5 months, in fact I don't believe it's recommended under one year.

zambaloo, you say you don't want to "give in" to co-sleeping - its not some kind of failure, you know!

yes, you will have to get her into her cot at some stage - that's why I said try co-sleeping again (just the two of you, on the floor) so you can actually catch up on your sleep and then maybe try something else.

please don't leave her to cry and of course you should be feeding her if she wants.

Just to let you know, I'm in the midst of a very similar situation, the difference with us is that we carried on co-sleeping even though we don't enjoy it as DS just would not go in his cot. He is 7 months and we are going to start sleep training tomorrow as he is so dependent on me to sleep that I have to spend whole evenings upstairs with him. It is so depressing when all my friends babies sleep through and nap in cots but I do think it is down to luck. My boy was a rubbish sleeper from day 1 and although we fought against the situation we find ourselves in, eventually we just had to do what we could to get some sleep ourselves.

There is a post in the sleep topic called 'what worked for us, hope it helps' or something similar. It is about the gradual retreat method of training, lots of people have had success with it and we are going to try it tomorrow.

Don't be too hard on yourself though, my friends are not better parents than me, by their own admission, they never had the problems we did.

Joyce79 - how old was your baby when you did that? And sorry for silly question but is that controlled crying?

She just woke again and am currently shushing her trying not to pick her up.

So if I put her in a sleeping bag she just spends the whole time rubbing at her face and it seems to really annoy her - do I just persist with it?

Also what were your baby's daytime naps like? Length & how many / what times during the day?

Thank you all so much - it is very good to know I'm not alone!

Just wanted to add that my DS is 7 months and still needs swaddling. I have tried a number of times to move to a grobag - he just goes crazy and rubs his face and wakes up. There is no harm in continued swaddling.

I bought the ergo pouch that fits up to one year and converts to a sleeping bag one arm at a time. It's pretty good but he still sleeps better in the miracle blanket (feet out).

Hang in there. Even if you do nothing it will improve. If you choose to cosleep in the short term to catch up on sleep you can 'fix' the sleep issues later, there is no magic time limit on these things.

It may seem that the face rubbing is annoying her but it may prove to be a comfort measure. My dd (6mo) gnaws on her hands to get to sleep. hard as it is I would try to remove as many 'props' as possible, easier said than done I know. Good luck.

zambooloo I really sympathise, DS is an awful sleeper!! We tried every trick to get him sleeping properly and settling at night! Until recently when he was ill we had finally cracked it, so I'll tell you what worked for us, but remember they are all different and that's why so many people say different things, we got there purely through trial and error.

1. he hates the dark! Would much sooner sleep when it's light, and if he wakes at night and it's dark he is inconsolable for quite some time, we realised this when he was around 6 months, before that we had been thinking he was just upset whenever waking. We now leave the landing light on with his bedroom door open.

2. he's fussy with his temperature. Too hot or too cold and we get no sleep.

3. he still wanted milk at night until 8 months, it's a lot quicker and easier just to let him have some than to wean him off, he self weaned around 8.5 months.

4. we put a lullaby cd on repeat all night. It's very quiet, but drowns out any outside noises that would otherwise disturb him.

5. for us, swaddling never worked even as a newborn, he hated it.

6. easiest way to settle him at the start of the night was letting him fall asleep on the bottle. He stopped doing this himself around 12 months.

I know you've probably heard it a million times, but it really is just a phase. In a month's time it'll all be different. I had days where I just cried because I was so tired, then I cried because I didn't take ds out as much as I felt I should, due to being too tired so felt like a bad mum DS now 14 months and the happiest baby you could ever meet so I obviously didn't damage him like I was worried about!

You haven't let your daughter down, you are just working with her to find her best options.

Oh, we also did controlled crying around 8 months, it was good just for settling him if he woke when we put him down in the cot. Proper CC you leave them for quite a while between going in, however we did it like joyce above and increased by 1 min each time. It's not recommended under 6 months, however we tried it again recently as DS's sleep has been messed up since getting over his illness and it didn't work, so I'd say it needs to be done at 6-12 months to be most effective.

How does she nap during the day?

Both my ds were terrible sleepers in the first few months, and only catnapping during the day. When they aren't getting enough sleep in the day, they sleep badly at night because they're overstimulated.

So I worked on their daytime sleep first, making sure I started getting them ready for a nap after 1.5 or max 2 hours of them being awake. Just kept doing this, so if they only had a short nap, I then got them ready for the next one 1.5-2 hours after they woke up. This 2 hour rule is the most important, I think, and is what saved us. I just kept at it and bedtime was early - 6.30 or 7. They then woke up once or twice in the night for a feed but went straight back to sleep.

Naps lengthened too, to between an hour and a quarter to 2 hours, and we found ourselves naturally in a rhythm of a 9am nap, a 12pm one and sometimes a shorter one at around 3pm - I think this last one stopped at about 9 months.

I rocked them gently till they fell asleep in my arms and lay them in the cot. If they woke up, I did it again. Once this was going well, I started putting them in the cot when they were drowsy, not fully asleep. By the time they were 6 months or so, I could just put them down and they'd roll over and go to sleep. (They did have dummies).

They aren't twins by the way - 4 years apart - but it was exactly the same with both of them. People were sort of aghast at how badly they slept in the beginning and then couldn't believe what great nappers and sleepers they turned into, all through toddlerhood.

I really recommend starting with the daytime naps - just keep at it. And naps at home, not in pushchair, at least until you get it sorted. It's worth it!

Good luck.

I'm totally with Tanterose on this one. I think first you need a quick fix to help everyone get a bit more sleep in whatever way is possible and only then once you're feeling more human is it worth trying any sort of longer term sleep training if you choose to.

Sleep training in my experience either takes masses of willpower or tons of patience or both. Neither of which you'll be in a good position to offer now when you're exhausted.

So if it were me I would:

• start of focussing on day time naps as the better she sleeps in the daytime the better she should at night. If you can, every 2 hours go to bed with her so you and she can both nap. Even if it's just 10mins every little helps.
• if you don't have one already, get a stretchy wrap sling and put her in it. I can almost guarantee she will sleep well in it and you can put your feet up on the sofa and snooze knowing you can't drop her.
• at night time, forget the cot for the next few weeks and do as Tanterose says: mattress on the floor and cosleep. What matters most is everyone getting some sleep.

Do all this for 3 weeks then read the No Cry Sleep Solution for gentle ways to help her learn to sleep on her own.

Oh and at this point, bollocks to 'shush pat' if you're BF. If its quicker to give her a quick feed then just do that, you can always change that later but for now you need to go with what's easiest.

Chin up love

sugar & spice - I think the only trouble is, there is no 'quick fix' to this situation. It requires patience & consistency, to teach her DD a new way of going to go to sleep. Of course OP will be exhausted right now but carrying on co-sleeping or feeding to sleep is simply delaying the inevitable. She may be even more exhausted in another couple of weeks if things don't improve. OP has already done 1 week of baby in the cot & I really think if she remains consistent she will see some progress very soon.

I agree with pp's CC isn't appropriate at this age she is too young. We succeeded in getting DS to sleep in the cot using sssh/pat. He cried, that was inevitable, but we were there to comfort him & help him learn the skills of falling to sleep on his own. We used the exact same technique at every naptime and bedtime and again if he woke in the night. Within a couple of weeks he was settling well in his cot & sleeping through.

I would also be interested to see what the daytime naps look like as I agree with Honky - good daytime sleep is the key to good nighttime sleep & if she is well rested she will sleep better at night.

Only other thing I want to ask OP is what happens when she wakes in the night. You say she wakes every 20mins - does she wake fully & cry immediately, or is she just shuffling around & fidgety? And what is your response - do you feed/cuddle/rock immediately or do you hang back a moment & see if she'll settle? When my DS was younger I would be in there the moment he stirred, and quite often, he would stir a bit & go right back off to sleep but if I went to him too soon, I could end up rousing him fully & then it would take ages to resettle him.

Also wrt your comment about your friend saying you should stop feeding in the night - can I ask how often you are feeding at night??? I agree with PP that given her age you shouldn't withdraw feeds if she is very definitely hungry, but if she is feeding every hour or two, just because she can, or because its the only way you know how to get her to settle, then I would say your friend is right & it would definitely reduce the number of wakeups if you cut back on the feeds. I think at that age my DS was down to 1 night feed at around 4-5am. I would say any more than 2 night feeds isn't necessary, provided she is feeding well in the day.

HTH.XX