2 and half, and not settling to sleep

[Longdistance]

My dd is just the worst 4 settling 2 sleep. As soon as she gets in2 bed, it's like someone has wound her up again.
She wakes most mornings at 6am, and then gets a nap after lunch, shortly after 12 for an hour and a half. We then do bedtime at 7pm. We have tried taking the naps away, but she becomes grumpy, and really naughty. She has always been a terrible sleeper since birth in fact.
We do lots of activities throughout the wk. She's in nursery 4 two days, we do toddler gym on one day, and toddler swim another day. Only one day is a fee day.
She is unable 2 wind down and relax. We do the usual, dinner, pack toys away, bath, teeth, book routine. But, she just cannot relax.
On some days she wakes in the middle of the nite, which I have 2 deal with, as dh is useless with this.
I've run out of ideas, and she is quite a wilful child that can explode in a tantrum at a drop of a hat you'd think that would wear her out
We've tried the supernanny techniques, but they have not worked.
I now sit in the room with her on my laptop, til she's asleep. Which works ok, but can't do this every night.
Any tips will be greatfully accepted x

I clicked on to this topic to write exactly the same thing longdistance.

We have a Ds who is 2.5, very active, does not usually nap in the day (if he does, things are even worse at night), he wakes in the night still.

We too do the same routine but he tries every trick in the book not to stay in his bed. Tonight he was claiming that his neck was sore!

We've tried the gradual retreat method and in fact things got better for a while - only to go pear shaped again when the clocks changed.

It's tricky because he shares a bunk bed with other DS who is 5 and the other DS is next door.

Tonight I tried just leaving him to cry for a bit behind the stair gate but it meant that the other two boys got disturbed and upset. I kept putting him back in bed, calming him down, but as soon as I head for the door, he's hysterical. Finally, he calmed down and I sat with him for a bit till he fell asleep.

He's a nightmare! My other two would be just put to bed and they'd stay there- asleep.

I keep telling myself that it won't last forever but it is all rather hard work.

So at the end of that little rant, no tips I'm afraid but maybe some reassurance that you're not the only one with a duracell toddler.

Lol! Thanks 4 the reply. Yes, we call Eleanor the Duracell Bunny, as she just goes on and on. She seems 2 go off quicker with someone in the room with her, and the door ajar so she can see light. I have sat on my laptop, and ignored her fidgetting, and she's been asleep by 8.30. We've now dropped the nap, but she will continue 2 have a nap at nursery.
It seems like she's falling asleep earlier now, but could do with her doing this on her own. Those supernanny tricks never worked 4 us, and they went on 4 weeks of us trying different things. My db is staying with us at the mo, and he seems 2 rub and pat her back, and seems 2 work with him, but she giggles when I do it, so that ones a no go. I know she can fall asleep on her own, as my sil occassionally babysits, and she falls asleep straight away 4 her
As 4 my youngest, she's a little angel in disguise. I just put her in her cot, and she puts her thumb in, rolls over,a dn we don't here a peep from here 4 12hrs. At least I have one good baby!

I know what you mean about them being better for other people.

DS will stay in his bed if DH tells him to, but it's a different story if it's just me doing bedtime. DH works away a fair bit so that makes things tricky.

Perhaps you can move further back from her till she goes asleep without you?

Sounds like over tiredness to me. Generally toddlers still need about three hours of sleep during the day and eleven at night, (of course I know every child is different and this might not be the case for some) my DD normally has about three hours a day but was still doing this. The last couple of days she's somehow got herself in to a two nap a day routine, but she seems to be sleeping a lot better, so I figured she was overtired. Maybe you should try encouraging a longer nap in the day?

Thanks for sharing Fushias.

I can't ever imagine my DS having a three hour sleep in the day! We're lucky if he gets an hour after falling asleep in the car. He's always been a sleep fighter.

We have a nocturnal duracell bunny too :( Pretty much the same as the above. We start bedtime at 6.15 with a bath, quiet time, story and settled into bed but nothing seems to work and DD2 (2.3) will finally go to sleep around 8.30-9pm. The fact that she's tired is having a huge impact on her bahaviour during the day. Like you OP DD2 is a 'demanding' child most of the time and has been since she's been a baby. I can't see that we've done anything different with her that we did with DD1 but they are chalk and cheese most of the time.
Any kind of dicipline is met with violent outbursts (hitting, scratching, slapping, kicking etc) to the point that I try not to let anyone near her when she's having 'a moment' as I don't want people hurt. I've decided that the month of May is going to see an end to the behaviour so am doing research into what works for other people :)

We have that behaviour too (hitting and biting etc) my2princess. Would be interested to hear what you find out.

Things were a bit better last night. He was put to bed (and resettled once) and then found him tucked up with his brother on the top bunk. I think he just likes to sleep next to someone.

I think 2-3 yrs can be really tough on sleep, just when you think you might have it sussed! Development is at an all-time high, and they are so much more aware of their surroundings. My DD has generally been a really good sleeper since birth but at 2.5, some nighttime antics are starting to creep in.

I disagree with the comment about toddlers needing 3 hours in the day; I'm sure a few still do but I don't think this is the norm. My DD used to wake early and it was cutting her nap down which solved the problem. However, once the nap has gone, it's hard to know what to do if problems still persist and for some toddlers, a nap every few days really helps.

Ultimately I think there is a period where brain development does disturb sleep patterns and all we can do is get through it, ideally staying calm and consistent throughout! Good luck.

Well, dd is still being a nightmare, and we've cut the naps. Sometimes even the naps are a fight in themselves anyway :(
I've bought a book about toddler taming, so am going 2 give this a go. Some of it makes sense. It goes through the motions of feeding (which we have problems with), sleep (major issues), and the dreaded tantrums (part of which is 2 do with her speech development). So I'm getting deep in2 this book, and reading the relevent chapters. I really am not one 4 reading books about babies/kids, but flicked through it 2 see some bits, and it seemed like quite sensible advice and help.
I know what you mean about exploding, but dd normally take it out on dd2 :( who's only 10mo, so have 2 be wary she's not around when she starts 2 brew up.
I also disagree with the 3 hour nap theory. Even when Eleanor was a baby, she wouldn't nap 4 3 hours. Never got that much out of her.
Last nite I was up at 2am with Alice, as she's teething, but all the comotion woke Eleanor up. Luckily, she went back pretty quickly. Dh was snoring his head off, but think he heard the noises 2, as did breakfast this morning with both girls while I slept :) which was nice!

I'm half way through Toddler Taming too and although it does make sense we're stuck on the sleep chapter as it tells you to (in short) put them back to bed 4 times then either lock them in or sit with them (not in those words but this is what it boils down to!). Our problem is DD2 climbs over stair gates and tries to destroy the door if you close it. I have been sitting with DD on the floor next to her bed for a few nights (reading the book which keeps me calm!) and last night she only took 45 minutes to drop instead of the 2 hours of fighting and slept through until just after 7 this morning. But she did have a longer nap yesterday lunchtime....?

Is it Toddler Taming by Christopher Green? I've given up with it as I found that every hard question I wanted answered, he would just say you have to accept it and there's no solution. Probably truthful, but not advice worth paying for!!

My DD can be a total nightmare and usually it's nothing to do with sleep or eating, just development. I still use the baby-led method of going through everything that could be 'wrong' with her e.g. teeth, ill, hungry, tired.... and usually decide that she's just being a madam because she's 2 and a half!! :)

Yes, it's by Christopher Green. Apparently, he's big here in Oz. So thought, I' give it a go. Still not convinced on the food thing. I have a vegetable dodger, and she only likes certain foods so much 4 BLW
My dh bribe Eleanor last nite 2 go 2 sleep, with a treat in the morning. Don't know if that's a good thing or not, but she fell asleep in half an hour, and she got a Peppa sticker book this morning, which she was pleased with. We have had her up til late, and then just put her down, an she' settle, although, don't know how we'll move her sleep time closer
My sil is babysitting 4 us Thurs nite, so we'll see if she goes down straight away.
With the tantrum thing, I've had 2 stop saying 'no', but explain 2 her why she can't have/do something, and then, instead of arguing about it. explain the once, and cut her off. So far it has seemed 2 work. But 4 how long is anyone's guess.
Yes about sitting with them. I sit with Eleanor, and tap away on MN and ignore her pleas 4 socks, blanket, milk............Seems 2 work so far, but don't know how we'll leave the room.
Last nite she slept from half 8, and woke at 6.30. Think she'll have a nap 2day, as mummy's knackered, and we'll be off 2 the beach!