6 week DD can't lie on back...help please.

[Mitsouko]

Hi, my poor little DD is just absolutely unable to lie down comfortably on her back. I suspect colic and reflux but not getting anywhere with treatments. She sleeps well in her sling, lying upright on my chest or on her tummy over my lap, but put her on her back and within 20 minutes max she will be writhing and grunting in agony. Left unattended this erupts to colicky howling which can last hours. She is bf on demand every 90 minutes 3 hrs. DH gives a bottle of expressed milk once an evening so I can get 3 to 4 hoursin the spare room. We have tried infacol, colief, infant gaviscon, elevating co sleeper cot with books and several sessions of cranial osteopathy but not had any success. Know I probably just have to wait it out but hoping for some solution. My back is shot from the sling and I am sooo tired...

Well neither the hv nor the gp was helpful so DD and I spent yesterday at hospital and saw a lovely, caring pediatrician who was very kind and attentive. He definitely thought DD has reflux and gave meds. He said that both DD and I looked absolutely shattered, and that constant distress, vomiting and not being able to tolerate lying down was not normal, even for a colicky newborn. DD slept in my arms all day at hospital, slept in car seat too. Woke within 10 minutes of getting home though! Hopefully meds will help. We need to sleep!

Glad that the pediatrician helped. The meds might take a few days to kick in, but I found that just having someone listen and believe you was a big help.

Fingers crossed you get some good sleep soon.

Great you got seen by someome who took you seriously. What meds did you get given? I have had 2 babies with reflux, one of whom also has a cow's milk allergy, so I feel your pain and have been where you are. It's really hard.

She was given domperidone and ranitidine...I hope it will help. Yes, it was really good to be listened to. It's been so hard seeing her in such agony. She spit up a little less with a few feeds earlier but still unsettled. Napped in sling a bit though which is hard on my back but good for her. Had two colicky meltdowns earlier but hopefully she will outgrow that. I hear that 5-10 weeks is often the peak time. I will be happy when I can just lie her down for am hour or two and get a chance to rest my arms and back and have a nap.

She was given domperidone and ranitidine...I hope it will help. Yes, it was really good to be listened to. It's been so hard seeing her in such agony. She spit up a little less with a few feeds earlier but still unsettled. Napped in sling a bit though which is hard on my back but good for her. Had two colicky meltdowns earlier but hopefully she will outgrow that. I hear that 5-10 weeks is often the peak time. I will be happy when I can just lie her down for am hour or two and get a chance to rest my arms and back and have a nap.

Ok, well after about 10 days on the meds we've not had a great deal of improvement. DD is vomiting a bit less, which is good, but still markedly uncomfortable on her back, even elevated on the cot wedge. Usual routine is for me to do a feed, then pop her in her sling for an hour or so until she gets settled. The sling is a mei tai so she's upright and easy to wind. DD will then usually drop off and I can either leave her in the sling to rest peacefully - or attempt a transfer into the Moses basket so I can try for a little rest myself. Needless to say the transfers are not very successful! Even if she's out cold, within 10-15 minutes she'll start stirring. This builds to groaning, grunting, squeaking, coughing, hiccups, sometimes some spitting up too. Face scrunches in agony, legs get drawn up to chest. She's swaddled but still wiggles and thrashes around. Eventually this builds to full on crying - and if I haven't picked her up by this point already then that's when I give up and pop her back in the sling. I feel really guilty for even trying to lay her down, but being up and active from 2am-9pm is really difficult. DH home this weekend, so I'm getting naps, which is bliss and really helping. But dreading Tuesday...

Just trying to push through as I'm still too scared to let her sleep on her belly. Hope it will get easier. Do babies outgrow reflux as their digestion matures, like colic?

Defo sounds like reflux and the meds you have listed are probably not enough. Get thee to the gp and dont leave until you have some better meds.
Untreted reflux can damage the osophegus so get it sorted.
DD has slept on her tummy since she could roll,always slept upright on me before due to reflux.I have aged about 30 yrs this year

sorry op didnt see your last posts.
The next thing to try would be omeprazole. I found the ranatidine and dom were not enough and she ended up on all of it in the end.
They do grow out of it in time but its so awful in the meantime.
I got loads of support on mn there are some specific threads for reflux with some knowledgable parentsw.
Try giving her some water after milk feeds too,we found that helped.
I never tried the differwnt formulas but that can help too.

Ah, unfortunately GP is useless so we won't get any help there! But I may take her back to hospital later next week to see pediatricians, who were great. Just didn't know how realistic my hopes of improvement were when she's just 8 weeks old. She's sleeping really sweetly on my chest right now. Don't want to attempt a lie down as we had an unsuccessful one earlier and she needs some quality sleep. DH will be up in a few hours - he did a 10-3 shift last night - do I will be getting some rest soon.

Oh I really feel for you OP, it sounds so hard. Don't have experience with reflux so can't be much help but just wondered if it might be worth trying a wrap type sling if your back hurts? I can carry my 24lb 8mo in a moby for hours without it hurting! Really hope it improves for you both soon.

Could she also be reacting to something in the breastmilk? Is your diet heavy in milk/soy wheat gluten or anything like that? The grunting and squirming is exactly how my dd was. First I was told colic til I explained she was on reduced lactose comfort formula and how I had really good anti colic bottles. Silent reux was also mentioned but I explained I wanted a trial of pepti formula as it had gone on long enough and instantly an improvement. In the end we did cave in to tummy sleeping as that's how she was comfortable. We bought one if those angel care monitors which really r fab. :) would you consider her taking her naps in the basket on her tummy while you watch her? Just so she gets a proper nap even once a day? :)

I dont' think they reccomend it anymore but have you tried swaddling? My DD1 was the samw way and I felt so mean moving her onto her back. We used to sit in the iving room all evening wih her sleeping happily on her front and then when it was bedtime we had to turn her over and she'd be awake within 10 minutes and yelling....swaddling saved us.

Are you 100% sure that this is reflux/colic alone? Alarms bells rang for me when you said that your DD has had minimal weight gain, IMO you should really push for a pead referral and ask for a few tests. I am sure that I read somewhere on here about issues with narrow stomach valves restricting the flow of food into the gut showing the same symptoms?
I am sorry I am so vague, I cannot remember what the condition is called

Thanks everyone for popping back in...sorry I'm typing one handed here so individual responses tricky! Yes, got a moby but really struggled with it so went with the mei tai as its so easy to get on and off. I've got existing back problems so carrying 10 lb baby 12 + hours daily will probably take its toll regardless of sling choice...but may give moby another try...I really struggle with all that fabric! Pediatrician and lactation consultant both said it was unlikely that problems were caused by my diet, they were both of the opinion that breast milk is influenced by contents of blood not stomach and that only in rare cases is what mum does or doesn't eat a factor in baby's problems. But still, lots of other people have suggested cutting various foods from diet so I've reduced dairy dramatically the last few weeks...sadly with zero effect. I'm vegetarian so struggling with what to eat. Certainly having a lot of toast, so maybe gluten a factor...does gluten enter bloodstream post digestion? I've started eating a little fish to replace protein lost from dairy and beans, which I was also told to cut out. Some people have suggested I ff but I don't want to stop bf as dd has great latch, feeds well and we both enjoy the closeness. Plus I want her to have the health benefits of bf. Besides, she's had formula on occasion when I've not had time to express enough for her night bottle that DH gives during my 4-5 hours of sleep. She's no different after ff than bf though. As for the cause, colic and reflux was pediatrician's opinion when we were last seen, but maybe wé should go back to hospital, push for further tests as I'd hate to think we were missing something. Last weigh in she had dropped from 50 th centile to about 40 th...health visitor wasn't bothered though.

Oh yes...forgot to say that I do let her nap on tummy sometimes to sleep. On my lap while I sit on sofa, hand on back to check breathing. Only do this when reasonably alert though. If I start dropping off I put her back in sling, make coffee and go for a walk.

It might be advisable to speak to a dr about the sleeping issue as at least that way you can make an informed choice. As much ad their is advice against it in regards to SIDS there r also risks involved to a baby that doesn't sleep and exhausted parents. During a hospital admission with dd2 I spoke to a dr as she would only sleep on her tummy and surprisingly her reaction was ' well mummy needs to sleep so does baby' that's all she said :) I seriously would speak to a professional about it :)

Your DD's sleeping sounds so much like my DD was. Like you I was too nervous to try putting DD to sleep on her front. However I did try putting her down on her left side. I had read that this can help because the angle of the stomach means that the opening at the top is higher than the opening at the bottom. It didn't solve everything but it certainly helped. You are at a really tough stage but it does get better. Something like 90% grow out of reflux by 6 months and 99% by 12 months.

Really, really hope it will get better! Yesterday afternoon looked promising as DD was spitting up a little less and even napped for an hour in car seat...miracle of miracles! But it took a turn for the worse again last night. DH did babywatch from 10pm-3am...didn't even try to unsling her as she was so unsettled. I fed at 3am and it all came up, cue 2hrs crying and walking the floor. Tried another feed at 5am with slightly less vomiting, DD exhausted and crashed out in sling shortly afterwards. Stupidly, I attempted to swaddle and transfer to basket...within 10 minutes she'd gone from deep sleep to grunting, squeaking and coughing, then vomited loads of milk. Cue another hour of crying, and another feed. Now she's asleep in sling and I don't dare lay her down. I'm exhausted but can manage for a few more hours until DH gets up.

Just recalling all that advice I got during pregnancy to "sleep when the baby sleeps"...right...whatever! Guess it works a charm if baby can lie down.

Is there a reflux support thread about anywhere?

Oh gosh, it sounds awful, poor you.

I would 100% follow your instincts and take her back to the hospital. I think you could reasonably ask them to make double sure she doesn't have pyloric stenosis or some other digestive anomaly like a hiatus hernia etc.

If this is all clear, then explain that the ranitidine is not working, not even at max dose, and ask to try a PPI drug. Omeprazole is one, but the easiest to administer IME are lansoprazole fastabs, which are dispersible. They need to be given on an empty stomach (or as empty as possible) and 30 minutes needs to elapse between taking them and having next feed. Tricky but might be worth it if it works.

So, the LC and paed said that trace things in breastmilk is likely not the cause of issues (and I am sure they are right, it is perhaps unlikely) but not impossible. Sensitivity to cow's milk and soy protein was suggested as the cause to my baby's woes by my LC so it seems they don't all have the same beliefs about that one. Is it worth one last shot of cutting out ALL traces of dairy and soy for a couple of weeks to see if that improves things? I know it's really, really difficult and another thing to deal with with all this going on....When I was in your situation, I didn't do the dairy exclusion but in retrospect really really should have (as DS turned out to have a significant dairy allergy along with reflux). You and your babe might well eb different but I thought it worth sharing!

Yes there is a reflux support thread, or there was.... it was in breast and bottle feeding. I will see if I can find it.

You mention not knowing how to cope yet. Well, I think it's important to realise that parenting a non-reflux baby is a completely different experience to parenting one with the condition. It is about 1000x more difficult. I don't think this fact is appreciated enough by paeds and family GPs who just tend to bung you in the 'new first-time over-worried mother' category. If they could only spend 24 hours looking after your baby they would soon change their tune :)

I am sure pyloric stenosis is unlikely at this stage and given your DD is, well, a DD - it's commoner in boys. Didn't mean to alarm you.

Mitsouko, it sounds exhausting! I have a 7wo DD2 who also was difficult to settle on her back. We did the thing of taking shifts to hold her through the night. But we have an older child as well and simply had to sleep in order to function as a family, so we decided to let her tummy sleep. My GP told me never to leave her alone if we let her sleep on her front, so I got a under the mattress movement monitor and we use this at night. I was racked with guilt for letting her sleep on her tummy against SIDS advice, but the reality is we needed to sleep and now I have accepted this is the way it works for DD2. It does help I have family support - apparently I slept on my tummy from birth. My oldest child also tummy slept as soon as she could roll (4 months). So I second RunningOutOfIdeas in saying you should speak to a professional about a sustainable way of managing your DD's sleep.
Re slings, I have a moby and it is magical in inducing sleep for DD2. I would put the time into learning how to tie as it has been invaluable for me - I have found it very comfortable to wear.

I don't have a refux baby, but one of my NCT friends' little boy was born on same day as DS and does/did. I looked on in sheer disbelief at her days compared to mine - to the point that I couldn't ever complain as it was nothing compared to what she went through.

She got help as there was no way that she could possibly cope - she tried for 4 months and it almost did her in. Get a nanny, or whatever, to come in for a few hours every day so that you can rest. My friend's lady also helped her with a loose routine once his meds were sorted - it helped her get some sort of structure and feel 'normal'.

My DS (even though he didn't have reflux) was put on his tummy at about 4 weeks. I was going bananas not sleeping for more than 40 mins - 1 hour and so I did it for one nap - he slept for 3 hours straight . After that I very quickly did it more and more. I was actually fairly relaxed as DS was able to move his head from side to side very early and he was in a cot next to me.

He turned one yesterday and goes to sleep for every nap tummy down. Funnily enough, he was a very early sitter-upper/crawler, but didn't bother rolling until about two months ago. We're convinced that it's because he was already sleeping how he wanted to, so had no real need!!

Thanks so much everyone for your support, its really appreciated. My babywatch started at 2 am and we are only just now starting to settle a bit. DD is dropping off in sling, hopefully she will sleep for a while. I don't really dare lay her down for fear of starting the whole cycle again. Wish I could feel more relaxed about tummy sleeping. If we get to the point where I feel her safety is compromised by my exhaustion then I may be forced to try that. The monitor sounds like a good idea. Just don't want to disregard sids guidelines unless the alternative is more dangerous. I'm just about managing on my 4-5 hrs per night. I have no family support or friends available weekdays so I am looking at getting s doula in for a few afternoons each week. We can't really afford it but

Oops, posted too soon! Anyway, can't really afford it but will have to dip into savings and make do. Got GP appointment for Friday, but will probably just go back to hospital a & e as he has been so useless and wouldn't refer. Now got to figure out how I am going to manage totally vegan diet when I barely have a moment to feed myself!

Be careful re:diet. Again, going back to my friend. She was also super keen to continue BF, restricted her diet to the extreme and lost EXTREME amounts of weight. She was completely exhausted and her health was massively compramised.

She tried everything re:diet and in the end she stopped and moved him on to the suggested formula. It was a heartbreaking decision for her, but ultimately, your baby needs a healthy mummy as much (if not more i'd say) as it needs breastmilk. You shouldn't sacrifice yourself and your own health because you are so commited to bf. Yes, it's scientifically proven to be better for your baby. But when you have a child like yours that is this poorly, you must be open to other options that might just be better for you and baby.

I know that you probably don't want to hear this. But having seen someone close go through this, I think that once she stopped bf and used the special formula, all she said was that she wish she'd done it sooner.