20 mth DS screaming for us at bedtime :(

[blackcurrants]

DS used to have a bath, snuggle, couple of stories, quick breastfeed and then I popped him into his cot and he'd lie down and drift off quite happily.

In the last month he was wanted that final feed to go on for hours, and then bellowed and screamed if I didn't either nurse him to sleep or DH would shhhpat him down to sleep. Last night he howled for over an hour, and I eventually went in to feed him until he went to sleep because I wanted to go to bed myself (It was 9pm, I'm newly pregnant and KNACKERED), and couldn't while I was fretting about him not going to sleep. It's 8.45 now and he's alternately bellowing and calling for daddy, mummy.... NOT slowing down or getting tireder. DH and I have admitted defeat and are glumly eating our dinner to the sound of his screams.

This is miserable. Is it a phase that will pass? should I change something?

He wakes at 5.30, naps from 12-3, and we do 'bedtime' starting around 7.30 and doing lights off, in-cot at 8pm. I would love him to sleep longer in the night (say, another hour in the morning!) but that's never been a possibility. It seems whenever we put him down at night, he wakes at 5.30.

Argh the screaming! This is only a small flat. My heart will break. Or I might kill someone.

You mention that he wants you to feed him, can you just hug him or do you have to feed him? Sounds like there's a reason why he wants that final feed to go on for so long, hungry? comfort? back teeth coming through?

Could you extend the storytime while reducing the feeding time? Are you considering stopping nursing soon? If so, would you be willing to offer an alternative drink. Are you worried that if your DH shhpat's him to sleep then you'll always have to do that? My own experience with that is that it's not true and it's possible to change a child's sleep routine (over time) and something that you used to rely on totally is no longer required.

Hi Blackcurrants: first off congratulations on the new pregnancy. I am really pleased for you.
I can claim no expertise here. But, at 20 months it might be that he is napping too long at midday and so isn't tired at bedtime. If I remember correctly you have DS in nursery and I imagine that there is not much you can do about the average nap. I can only suggest then moving bedtime back by an hour and see if this helps. When my two were that age, a long afternoon nap often ruined any hopes of bedtime at a reasonable time. But the time DS was two I would do anything to stop him having a daytime map because then he would be jumping around until midnight.

And if you are knackered () another option I used was deciding unitalerally it was bedtime and taking DS with me. It was called putting mammy to sleep and it was generally the easiest way to go to bed at a decent time if he was being difficult.

Hi everyone, thanks for your advice.
It's definitely to do with the daytime nap - it used to be 11.30-2pm, and in the new room it's more like 12-3 which has made us push his bedtime back from 6.30-7pm to 7.30-8pm. I can't face pushing it back another hour, I'll have no 'grown up' time at all! Perhaps that's what the other parents in the nursery do? They want their kids up late so they can spend time with them? Uh, I dunno. We are fortunate in that we pick DS up at 4pm so we get hoours of time with him. About 1 too many, right at the end, at the moment!

Why won't nursery reduce his nap? I'd say almost definitely that's your problem, he's just not tired enough by bedtime and leaving to cry in my opinion is a bit mean as you're not really sleep training. Plus he's less likely to respond making it stressful for all.

My DD was on 45 mins max at this age, 3 hours is an awful lot at 20 mos. I wouldn't push bedtime later as this can make things worse and in the long run you want him to drop his nap, not hold onto it forever. I think if you cut the nap the morning waking will also improve.

You have no chance of a proper bedtime with that lunchtime nap. 12-3 is waaaay too much for a 20mo. It obviously depends on the child and some will take a nap right up to 4yo but in my case, both mine had started to drop naps for a couple of days a week at 20 months. By 2, neither needed daytime naps.

I think you might have a battle with nursery - is there some sort of policy re waking a sleeping child?

Totally agree with pinktrees on all points!

Hmm, the nursery are pretty great and pretty responsive - I will talk to them .Certainly our bedtime problems have emerged from a later naptime happening, it's often 12-2 and sometimes 12-3. . . at weekends he sleeps for 1-2 hours during the day. He seems to need it.....

I think you're probably right. Luckily the nursery are pretty great and pretty responsive - I will talk to them. I think he sleeps so long there because everyone else is asleep (in their little cots, looking adorable) and basically I think I'm going to have to ask them to nudge him after 2 hours. And I think they will.

Bloody kids changing up their bloomin' habits! Thank you all. I'll let you know how it goes.

I think everyone else is right. My DD is 21 WEEKS and has about 3 hours of sleep during the day and has the same bedtime as your DS so I can't imagine he needs that much sleep.

I would also be prepared to reduce to less than 2 in the next few months or the same thing will keep happening.

Hmm, I called the nursery and he's doing about 2 hours of sleep, not about 3 - but it is an hour later in the day than in his previous room. So it's 12.30-2.30 (or sometimes 12.45-2.45) and not them all getting up before 2pm, which was what was going on in the last room. Hmmm.

I spoke for a long time to the main carer in the room, a woman I like and respect, who knows DS well. She pointed out that because we've had so much of this gorgeous weather recently they've been spending hours and hours playing outside every morning (they have amazing stuff, I always want to hang out with Ben in the toddler playpark), and that's why the kids are zonking out so much at naptime. She also said that they would wake him after an hour and a half if we want, but suggested giving it another week, as he's still adjusting to the new room. Apparently there's also been an influx of children into this room who are new to daycare, so naps are quite disturbed and that's why they sometimes all get off to sleep a bit later. She's going to write down the times of his naps on his daily sheet for me, and I can keep an eye on things.

I'm also going to have him playing out tonight for an hour, maybe two. DH is out this evening and I cannot do another bedtime like last night on my tod!

Good luck with tonight's "Power Hour" blackcurrants - or in your case "Power Couple of Hours" - thanks to my DBro for that one, you know the bath/story/feed/bed routine. It always made me smile in a wry kind of way when the DDs were being little shits difficult

I actually kind of disagree with some of the posters.... my two napped for 2 hours a day almost right up to their 3rd birthdays and they definitely needed it. Maybe he is actually over tired? Waking at 5.30 with an 8pm bedtime means he is only getting 9.5 hours per night - regardless of what happens at nap time - and that is not very much for 20 months I don't think... I don't know, I am CERTAINLY no expert, but IME my kids did not settle when they were overtired. Just a thought

Hearts, the OP said earlier that bedtime used to be 6.30/7 with 2.5 hrs at lunch and a 5.30am waking. The later bedtime has only come about because of the problems settling at bedtime - which is a classic sign of undertiredness. Zonking out at bedtime exhausted and then waking during the first part of the night is more a sign of overtiredness.

You are right - some children do need lengthy daytime sleeps well into their third year, but they tend to also settle well at night also indicating they need the extra sleep.

Good luck Blackcurrants, I hope it all goes better tonight.

heh, I have no idea if he's under or overtired, to be honest. He's not waking in the night, which has always been his sign of overtiredness in the past.

Today we have been outside and running around between 5.30pm and 7pm. (He eats properly at 5and then has yoghurt and milk now, at 7pm). He's pretty calm now and so let's hope we have a calm bath and bedtime. I spoke to two mums at the playground with 2 and 2 1/2 year olds, and they still had 2 hour naps and were sleeping 8pm till 6am. Maybe it's just an unsettled phase and it'll pass. He's a bit clingier than usual, I suppose....

Either way, DH is out tonight so I hope we have a calm one. Daddy is more exciting so usually our solo nights are a bit easier.... touch wood!

We've had similar problems, DS is 22mo. Went from being happy to be left in his cot, to very anxious and wanting us to stay until asleep. Also waking up screaming for us in the night. So we're staying with him until he falls asleep, as I couldn't bear the panicky state he was getting into.

Reason I post is the relationship to naps - DS has also been a 2-3 hour napper, and has been bouncing around in his cot until 9pm some nights if we let him sleep that long. Seems to need it, but actually we've cut it down to an hour and he seems well-rested on that. He's now going to sleep about 30 mins after he goes down. Better, but long enough for me to crash out too :)

Other peoples children may well have 2 hr naps, doesn't mean your's needs it too!