Daytime naps / 2-1 nap change / controlled crying for naps?

[janethommo]

Hi Ladies

I've posted recently as our now 10mth old daughter is now refusing to nap in her cot (we'd up until just recently cracked this and had a routine!) and this has coincided with crawling and reducing milk.

She has only had short naps in the past - 2 x 30min naps (normally 10amish and 3pm ish), but a couple of days this week she has slept 1hr+ in the afternoon (but in car or on me).

I know they can switch to one nap and I want to encourage this so she has better quality napping time if indeed this is what she needs and wants. But how?!

I've tried so many times to get her to nap in the cot but she just screams now then starts crawling/pulling herself up. This goes on for over half an hour. I've tried no intervention, I've tried pick up put down, I've tried sitting with her, I've tried in sleeping bag and always have dark room, music etc.

Should I just let her cry for longer? We did CC to get nights sorted when she was 7 mths as she relied on us to settle her to sleep which took hours, now bedtimes are really good.

Yours confused!
Jane

Sorry - meant to add our typical routine:

7am - wake for day 200ml Formula
8:30am breakfast (ready brek, fruit puree, a few cheerios and sometimes toast)
10:30am ish - 30min nap in buggy/car/on me
12-12:30 - lunch (3 ice cubes of puree or sandwiches, grated cheese, veg finger food/breadsticks, banana and custard or yohurt for dessert)
3pm - 30min nap in bugy/car/on me
5pm - tea (normally opposite of above so sandwiches if had puree at lunch)
7pm - bed and 200ml bottle of formula

I'd be inclined to think shes too young to transition to 1 nap, and likely this would lead to overtiredness and worse sleep. At 10 months my DS was only just tea sodding ing from 3 naps to 2. Though he is sleep hungry and started crawling at 7/8 months and that knackers them out.

Crawling is a big developmental leap, so the change could be affecting her sleep...

Her awake time does seem really long and I wonder if thus is why she is fighting sleep at nap-time?
At 10 months DS sleep routine looked something like this:
Awake at 7/7.30
45 min to an hour nap at 9/9.30 (consolidates on night time sleep)
12.30pm nap for 1 1/2 to 2 hours
4pm / 4.30 sometimes take a 30 minute nap depending ontumings and length of previous nap
6.30/7pm bed

HTH

Tea sodding ing should read transitioning!

Thanks LotusPalm but she has always only napped for that amount since very young (apparently I was the same as a baby!) she is always on the go and despite those 2 short naps she never stops!

The only time she'll nap at 9am-9:30am is if she is awake much earlier e.g. 5:45am-6am.

Jane

I'd get hold of 'Healthy Sleep, Happy Child' by Marc Weissbluth. It explains everything and awful lot better than I ever could!

Also, the constant on the go thing is often a sign of OT in babies!

Agree with lotuspalm on the naps there. She definitely is on the young side to go straight to 1 nap although its not unheard of. However 30min naps are usually a sign of overtiredness. Certainly always were in my house anyway!

Whilst your AM nap is quite late, I'd be inclined to say your issue might be more related to the gap between your AM and PM nap. At that age, my DS couldn't last any more than 2.5hrs after a 30min nap, whereas your DD is doing 4hrs. I reckon if you brought the PM nap earlier to 1.30pm then you might find she sleeps for longer at the PM nap. She could do with a good 1.5hr minimum nap here really.

Tired signs do change as they get older too. As a baby my DS would scream & scream if he got overtired, but as a toddler, he charges round the cot, spins in circles, headbutts things, gets very excitable & hyper & to anyone unknowing he would look like he wasn't tired at all when in fact he was 'wired'. It can be a very subtle switch from ok to overtired, & these behavioural signs can be less obvious so watch closely for a few days & see if you can spot anything.

If you are absolutely sure she is ready for 1 nap (which I personally doubt) I would suggest very gradually pushing the AM nap later by 15mins every week or two, but at the same time offer a VERY early bedtime. As LP says, Weissbluth highly recommends doing 5.30pm bedtimes when you first transition, & I would especially recommend this while she is only napping 30mins in the AM because that will not sustain her until a 7pm bedtime. As the nap gets later in the morning & lengthens (ideally to 2hrs) then you will be able to gradually push bedtime back to 7pm.

HTH.x

Thanks both for the advice, guess I just didn't know what the tired signs apart from the obvious! I tried an experiment today based on what you said and am very pleased with what happened:

Woke 6:30am

Put down for nap at 9am (poss too early?) She cried for half an hour so eventually settled at 9:30am (I kept going in every 5 mins or so and rubbing her back and sshhing) so this was a major breakthrough with regards to the cot. She then woke just before 10am.

Had lunch slightly earlier at 11:45am then a mini play (waiting for nappy action) then changed her, into sleeping bag, music, dark room. I gave her a cuddle and straight away she went sleepy on me so put her down and amazingly she settled herself straight to sleep (just like at bed time).

This was 1pm and she slept until 2:30pm!!!! The longest nap she's ever had! She did wake after 30mins but I just let her cry and she settled back down.

I'm trying the same tomorrow though at my parents house so may be difficult but if she won't settle in cot will try pushchair at the same times.

What do you think about those times and nap lengths?

Thanks so much ladies!

I'd say that sounds like a smashing start! Very impressed that she got it so quickly! You may have a few set backs, but try and be consistent for at least a couple of weeks if things go a bit pear shaped at any time.

I would expect lunch time nap to extend over time and as she gets used to napping for longer. My DS (now 2) will wake on the sleep cycles (so 45 mIns or more normally 1.5 hours) when over tired. So as she gets better rested she should sleep longer at lunchtime. It took me ages to work out that putting him down earlier got more total sleep!

What time did she go down this evening? DS work up early this morning so had his nap at 11am til half 2 and was in bed asleep by 6pm. The early to bed thing normally gets us a later morning wake up time as well.

Good luck!

Half 1, not half 2

Thanks Lotus Palm!

So you think keep with same nap times? I wonder if the morning one should have been 9:30am as that was the time she dropped off?

If she wakes later e.g. 7am then that should probably be 9:30am nap right?

She was a little earlier to bed tonight - took her up for bath at 6:20am and she was asleep by 6:55 so about 10mins or so earlier than normal.

Not sure how to know when she doesn't need the early nap in future!

What time do you give your boy lunch with that sleep?

Jane

Hi

There is a certain amount of suck it and see, but DS would always go down 2 hours after he woke up for the morning nap, but your DD may be closer to 2.5/3 hours. I'd be inclined to stick with the earlier (9am) one for at least 3 more days to see what happens. It might be that she is actually OT by that time and the crying is a wind down.

Do get s copy of the Weissbluth book though - it's really useful.

I tend to give him a split lunch when he goes to sleep early, but he is a toddler and has started to be fussy with eating 3 solid meals a day. A good breakfast, 2 snacks and then a decent tea works for him. Today he had porridge with banana and toast for breakfast. Mackerel, a falafel with hummus at 10.30, then ham and cheese toast when he woke up. Then had filled pasta for tea with pudding. And a banana before bed!

Meant to say - do you think she would have gone to sleep earlier this evening? Weissbluth says if you think they would have gone to sleep half an hour earlier, then put them down Half an hour earlier!

As to the dropping the second nap, it becomes obvious after a while, bit can be a difficult transition and isn't just sorted from one day to the next. We transitioned the first time at about 18 months, but ended up having more 2 nap days than 1 nap days! Their awake time does start to get a bit longer and it just makes sense to keep one nap.

At 13 months DS was having his morning nap at about 9.30 for an hour, then down again at about 1.30/2pm for 2 hours and asleep at 7. This is why having an earlier bedtime now can help as this can be pushed back to 7 to accommodate later naps.

I hope this makes sense!

Yes all makes sense thanks for explaining!

She may well have gone to bed a bit earlier, sometimes we have tweaked it if got plans and she never complains bless her - she is very good at bedtime since we did cc when she was about 7 months old.

I will get a copy of the book - thanks for the tip!

Jane

Not so good today - first nap was good, for 30mins in her cot at 9am but second nap at my parents was only 30 mins at 12noon as she was so tired - think the strange cot didn't help.

Ended up putting her to bed early at 6pm today!

tomorrow we will try again!