Nights improving but..... please help us with the last bits

[chocciechip]

DD (6.5mo) was waking several times a night with pain. A trip to the paed has recommended we substitute two of her BM feeds with formula to 'dilute' anything in my diet that may be causing her problems (I've already tried to eliminate a tonne of things). He also wants us to try drop night time bm feeds altogether (i.e the very early morning ones).

A forumula feed, plus starting solids, has had a big impact. She will sleep through to about 5 -5.30 am.

Her early evening sleep is reasonable now too. A solid bedtime routine - supper, bath, bm feed and story - has meant I can sometimes even put her down in her cot awake and she drifts off. This seems miraculous.

But the 5am - 5.30 is hard. She falls asleep when we pick her up but wakes up the instant we put her in her cot. And starts crying and crying. DH has for the last 5 nights or so resorted to holding her for a couple of hours, and she will sleep on him until 8.30 am - too late in my view, but by then we're all shattered.

Yesterday we decided to wake her at 7.30 no matter how tured she seemed and try 'recalibrate her'. But again, 5.30 she woke and dh ended up holding her in bed this morning but did manage to get her to sleep for about 45 mins in between us in bed (we raraley have her sleeping in the bed with us).

We did get her up at 7.30 and are trying again.

Any tips on what we should be doing and are we on the right track.

Day naps are a total disastour - only happen if she's held. But that's another post.

Are you doing a dream feed at 10.30/11pm? I'd hazard a guess she's genuinely hungry at 5am if she's going through from 7pm. I didn't drop that late feed until 9 months so I would reinstate that and she'll probably happily go until 7am. But yes I would definitely also start your day at 7 whatever happens. Get the night sorted and then tackle naps, if I were you.

I don't think there ever is a "what you should be doing". You just do what you do to manage the situation. That could be: co-sleeping from the early morning; getting up for the day at 5am (you and your DH could take turns); different combinations of feeds; etc etc.

If you are searching for the mythical sleep through for 12 hours, don't hold your breath - tons of babies simply don't (neither of mine did until at least 12 months), and it won't be down to anything you do.

I don't know what others think but I'm always a bit about hcps who say to give formula instead of breast milk. Your DD may simply need the comfort of the breast. If you don't want to go back to the bf, you could try a dummy. Or the co-sleeping. Or both.

As for day-time naps: walks in a sling? Will she sleep in a push chair? When on a drive in the car? Neither of mine were great day-time nappers either, in the end you just have to go with the flow. I do sympathise though, because it can be exhausting!

Also, what made you think it was pain that was waking her?

Speaking only from personal experience - the 5am / 5.30am wake-ups were not unusual at all for my babies when they started sleeping through (3rd baby not quite there yet, well, not at all actually, but hoping that might improve soon!).

Once my other 2 children started sleeping 'through' i.e. from 7pm until the morning, a 5.30am wake-up was pretty common and lasted a good few months.

They do grow out of this phase, but I expect your baby is genuinely hungry after going 10 or so hours overnight. Mornings are a bit of a faff at that age, as baby wakes too early, has a feed then drops back off to sleep. It will sort itself out, I promise!

We've just bought a gro-clock for our 4 & 3 yr old - who both believed, up until very recently, that 6am was a great time to start the day. We've managed to push this back to 6.30am with the help of the gro clock. However, from when they slept through at approx 6months, to the grand old ages of 3 / 4yrs old, 6am was usual wake-up time in our house, so your baby is doing pretty well going til 5.30am!!

Don't stress or try to fix it - it will fix itself eventually. Babies / children DO love an early morning!!

Thanks for the replies. Rollerbaby and icravecheese - I don't think it's hunger. She gets a BM feed at about 7pm, and usually sleeping by 7.30pm. When she wakes again ~11 or 12pm, I give her a bottle of formula. So she's only sleeping about 5.5 - 6 hours before waking up. We'd tried BM dreamfeeds before but it had no effect on her waking in the early hours at all. Forumla has made the difference.

fluffyanimal It was pain. She had a very high pitched scream which could go on for a very long time. Sometimes we'd pick her up and she'd be screaming, pass wind, and be asleep again before her head even hit our shoulder. I'd assumed it might be something in my milk causing a reaction and had cut out dairy, chocoloate, onions, caffiene, alcohol, all the brassicas, nuts, soya - the works basically. With no improvement. She would scream for a long time while trying to poo as well, even though they were soft. We videoed her screaming to show the paed.

Paediatrician says she has a very sore lower bowel which was aggrvated by BM feeds (digesting very fast and keeping bowel active) and by frequency of feeds (pretty much every 2.5 hours at the time). I do think moving onto solids and the one formula feed seem to have helped a LOT on all levels, but really wanted to try extend her sleep by just a bit if poss. Her poos have more substance but for some reason causing her less distress to pass them.

5am is very early for all of us - she wants to carry on sleeping, just not in her cot. We don't know how to break that. I am worried Dh is creating a habit by holding her, but even though I tried feeding her and rocking her this morning, she wouldn't sleep in the cot, but did happily sleep on DH.

oh dear, poor little love, glad you've got the pain bit more or less sorted now.

Sounds like she's got into a bit of a 5am wake-up habit then....

The only solution I can think of, is the wake-to-sleep method (read about in some sleep book, can't remember which one though, sorry! Try googling it, there is loads on internet about it) where you wake the baby approx 10mins before they wake themselves - so go in & wake her at 4.45am say. I know it sounds crazy, but apparently they stir a little - you just turn them over, or tuck them in, it breaks the sleep cycle they're in, they drop back off into a deep sleep and (hopefully!) sleep for another few hours.

Sorry, I've explained that really badly, but if you google it, or try re-posting about 'wake to sleep' method, someone else more eloquent might come along to explain how it works! Good luck!

Have you tried feeding her at 5am when she wakes?

loveisagirlnameddaisy Yes, I have. And she feeds, dozes off and seems sound asleep, but when I put her in her cot she wakes up and its as if I haven't fed her - crying and miserable. That's usually when dh caves in and just holds her while she sleeps and he dozes. I'm supposed to be dropping these feeds apparently, so have been wondering if I'm wasting my time.

icravecheese I'd forgotten about the 'wake to sleep' method. Will maybe re-post and find out how successfulpeople found it before I shoot myself in the foot and wake her when maybe (I live in hope) she wouldn't have done so anyway.

There's an alternative to wake to sleep which is waking for the late feed and keeping awake for 45 mins ish. It's not normally needed in 'routine babies' of this age as their daytime sleep is balanced to complement night time sleep. But you could try it. Incidentally, what happens during the day with naps?

Some children are early wakers and there's not much you can do about it. However, if your DD is one, I think 6am is a realistic waking time you can aim for.

Daytimes are hard for me. She will nap for about 2hrs in the morning and another hour in the afternoon - BUT - only if she's sleeping on me. She will sleep in the car and occasionally in the pram, but that's not practical for every day. Our house isn't geared up to push her to sleep then leave the pram where she will be safe and carry on sleeping. And if we try to lift her out of it, she's awake and its rocking rocking until she sleeps again, but only on me.

It's very frustrating because I work from home and couldn't take maternity leave, and really need that time to work if possible. But I thought I'd try crack nights first because I am so tired dealing with crankiness in the day is just too hard.

typing with one hand while baby naps on me:

I thought nights were improving but things 'backslid' last night.

dh forgot to buy formula (which I am still completely stunned by) so i breastfed at ~10.30pm after dd woke crying. She woke again in the early hours, then again at 4.30am (desperate breastfeed again) but wouldn't allow dh to put her in her cot again. We gave up at 6am, and now is the first time she's slept since that v disturbed sleep, and she keeps waking now, so i think is v overtired.

I am shattered, exhausted, in total despair and can't stop crying. And dh and i have had words this morning because he and i are so different, and i feel as if i am carrying the bulk of the burden (trying to find a fix and also dealing with the consequences of bad nights).

Just don't know what to do or where to turn. I felt as if I'd made progress - dd has now occasionally allowed me to put her in her cot awake at ~7.30 and she self settles to sleep. But it feels as if the other end of the night is undermining all that hard thought, care and careful routine. I think part of that progress was due to me just biting the bullet with day naps and sitting for hours letting her sleep on me so she isn't too tired at bedtime.... but despite this I now have an totally exhausted child on my hands, i am exhausted, and back to ground zero. I was thinking of getting nights fixed first, day naps later, but feel so lost I don't know what to do.

I always had a golden rule which was 'tomorrow is another day'. You've had a bad night which could be for any number of reasons, but all you can do is try and get her back on track and start afresh tomorrow. It's interesting that you say formula has made such a difference and this makes me wonder if she's getting enough solids during the day. (Formula shouldn't help babies sleep longer but it does stay in their stomachs longer so they may feel fuller longer).

What exactly does she eat during the day?

I think it's also a definite case of poor sleep associations - the fact she sleeps on you during the day will affect her ability to easily settle at night when she wakes. It's so difficult knowing where to start but you kind of have to treat the naps and the nighttime sleep the same in the way that you approach them.

See how the formula goes tonight and if it gets you back on track. And you need more support in RL - can you speak to your DH when you're not too exhausted and try and get him to understand that you're feeling desperate?

Its poor sleep associations for sure ... I know this, entirely our fault. I get her to sleep during the day on me and its the only way she'll sleep. Been like that since birth.

DH and I actually fought last night over our exhausted baby's head, because this needing to be cuddled from 4.30 - morning is a new thing. He started it when she was sick - being noble - to allow me to get some sleep. I warned him 3 days ago it was turning into an issue, and here we are. Last night I wanted to sob with despair.

Tonight I have tried to progress the grounds I've made - which was rocking her until sleepy and then putting her down - to putting her straight to bed after her routine and when she's showing signs of tiredness. Trying sush/pat (or what I think shush/pat is).

I've started a different thread on this so won't repeat... suffice it to say, it is breaking my heart.