Has anyone had any success using CC for an early-waking toddler?

[ExistentialistCat]

DD2 is 18 months old and has been waking between 5 and 5.30 (and earlier) ever since she was night weaned at 6 months. She's obviously still tired and ends up rather grumpy until her lunchtime nap. We have tried all the usual things - messing with naps/bedtime, blackout blinds, lots of exercise/daylight in the late afternoon, trying to settle her back to sleep with milk/cuddles, even a half-hearted attempt at wake-to-sleep.

It's affecting our whole family and DH has suggested we try 'just leaving her' in the morning. In practice this would involve some form of controlled crying. I'm prepared to give it a go as I am desperate but wanted to find out whether this has much chance of succeeding before I put myself and my baby through all this unhappiness!

Any experiences?

We did it with dd1 and got her a gro-clock at the same time. I hated it but like you I was desperate. It did work after about 3 days though.

Just don't aim for anything unrealistic like 7.30am though, at least to begin with. You've got an early riser and they'll probably be that way for quite some time. Dd1 now wakes at 6. Its still early but much easier to cope with.

No success at all with CC at that time as I found once she'd had around 10 hours there was no way she was going back to sleep.

I would give the groclock a go - she might just be old enough. Good luck. Come and join us on the early wakers whingers thread!

Thank you for the replies.

FuttBugly, how old is your DD1? 6 a.m. would be bliss...

Meggymoodle, that's exaclty my worry - DD2 often wakes after about 9 hours of sleep, and whilst that's not enough for her (she's been hysterical with tiredness this morning after a 4.30 start), it's enough to be able to resist my efforts at persuading her it's still sleeping time.

I've thought about the gro-clock but I can't see her quite getting the hang of it. She just wants company and to start the day.

I've looked at the early wakers whingers thread but it's a fine line between relief that you're not alone and desperation that, if this affects so many people, there's no hope in hell that it'll change!

We had this with ds1- now 2.4. We used the gro clock from 20 months, gradually adding 10 mins every other morning from his normal wake up time. No crying at all. It worked a dream. He now wakes at 7am. For us 20 months was the earliest I think he'd have understood it properly so can you hang on in there?! But every child is different- some of my friends have used it successfully from 18 months?!

My ds is 18.5 months and he understands his groclock quite well I think. Have you tried a more basic version? Get a plug timer, plug a lamp into it and program it to come on at 6am. We've done that for 2 weeks. DS wakes at 5-5.30 but he now understands its not morning until the light comes on and he's been much quieter. Then at 6 when light is on he plays with books that I hide in his cot and usually stays happy until about 6.30. Worth a try?

FWIW I agree with Meggymoodle my LO wouldn't respond to CC or any other form of sleep training at that time in the morning b/c he's already 'banked' a decent amount of sleep by then. However, it does sound like your DD is having a pretty short night if she's only getting 9hrs & to me it sounds like its probably overtiredness that's causing the EW. For us, the biggest cause of EW has always been OT, with not being tired enough at bedtime coming a close second. It may just be worth posting your routine incase anyone can share some suggestions.

Oh & definitely use the Groclock. We haven't bought one for DS yet (almost 19 months) b/c I felt he may be too young to understand it yet, but I will certainly get one if we have any more phases of EW in the future.

Thanks again, and happy Mother's Day to you all! DD2 didn't wake until 7.30 this morning, and that was only because DD1 went in to talk to her!!! I've noticed this before - we have a fortnight or so of worse and worse nights and then something clicks and it's better for a short while. I don't understand why it gets out of kilter or why it snaps back again.

I'll definitely look into a gro-clock as I'm much more comfortable with that idea than crying. Also, because the early waking is so inconsistent and we have random good spells, it's hard to know whether any specific intervention has really done any good.

Omama - OT has definitely been a problem, as well as not being tired enough at bedtime. Not quite sure how to manage these factors sometimes. Here's our routine, for what it's worth:

Waking anytime from 5
7.30 Breakfast (keep DD2 happy with milk until then)
Always go out in the morning for some activity or other
If very early waking, she might nod off in the car briefly mid-morning
12.00 Lunch
1pm Nap - usually goes down easily
3pm Wake her from nap, if not already awake (Wondering whether to cut this down to an hour and a half - some success in the past but then it reverted). ALWAYS grumpy after nap.
Try to find something to do in the afternoon - if weather allows, always go out to park or similar in hope of tiring DDs out.
5/5.30 pm tea
6.30 bath and start bedtime routine
7pm In bed, will often take until 7.30/8 to settle

Any thoughts gratefully appreciated!!

ExistentialistCat -

Looking at your routine I'd say that the 7pm BT is definitely too early if she is napping 1-3 & this is why she's not settling til 7.30/8. TBH even a 7.30/8pm BT is probably too early. Its my guess she's UT at BT, leading to a short night. But then after several short nights, she will get OT from having lots of long days IYSWIM?

if it helps to know, my DS will be 19months on Tuesday, & we've been having a similar spell of shorter nights too. For the last few months our routine has been
Wake: 7am
Nap: 12.30-2.30
BT: 7.30

All of a sudden he's taking longer to settle at bedtime & not going to sleep til 7.40ish & then he started waking at 6am. My LO has never really been one for BT battles or long NW's, but we always get EW instead. So.... I've actually started to cap his nap, I've just cut 15mins off to start with & plan to do this very slowly just b/c I'm worried if I cut too much he might get OT. We're definitely getting some longer nights, but still not quite as long as he was doing before.

I do think it might be worth a try to cap the nap a bit & see if it helps her settle better at BT & sleep for longer overnight. The only other real option I see is to gradually push BT later to 8/8.30pm, but if you're anything like me you won't want to lose your evening time! Heck why can't we have it all?!!!

It is something I'm actually toying with though instead of nap capping b/c like your DD, my DS seems to want & need his long nap - I always have to wake him & he is grumpy when I do.

5 a.m. start today; guess yesterday was fluke.

The worst thing is, she's so unhappy with this little sleep and I feel like I'm failing her by not being able to help her back to sleep.

I did think, omama, that I might try nap 12.30-2 and see how that goes. She went to bed like a dream yesterday...

Oh this is so hard.

Gosh I feel your pain. My 16 month old DS has started waking early. This morning he woke at 4am just to chat basically. We gave him a bottle of milk and he went back to bed until 7.30am, which is lovely for him but I still have to get up at 5.30am because I work. Some mornings he sleeps until 6.30am or even 7am but lately it's been more like 5am or 5.30am or even 4am. He goes to bed between 7 and 7.15pm and naps from about 1pm until 3pm or sometimes 3.30pm. I am trying to bring that nap earlier a bit and wake him a bit earlier to see if that helps.

He usually settles quite well at night, but sometimes grizzles for a little bit while getting himself to sleep.

So I have no solutions. I just go to bed now at 9pm so at least I am getting some sleep. I am not prepared to have him go to bed later because I like the 7pm bed time.

It is hard isn't it?! Well we are joining the EW club today b/c DS was up at 5.40am today, after having finally settled to sleep at 7.55pm last night. That's the shortest night he's had in a long time & his behaviour was horrendous this morning he was having tantrums all over the place. He was at nursery yesterday & they told me he napped as I requested from 12.45-2.30 but we aren't convinced as he really wasn't tired at bedtime AT ALL & it took him forever to settle.

I think the most difficult bit is we all feel bad capping their naps when they are having so little sleep overall, but sometimes its the fact they are having longer naps that's causing the short nights, so by not doing anything we are actually leaving the situation to get worse. And once they've had several short nights, of course they then get overtired - YUCK!!!

EC - I really would try the slightly earlier, and slightly shorter nap, and see if that helps her settle better at bedtime. You might find you get your later WU that way too.

Emmyloo2 - I would also say same to you as OP - if your LO naps 1-3pm then a 7pm BT is simply too early. She will be OT from the long day but UT from the short awake time to BT and so you get another short night & the cycle continues. So the choices are

1. do a slightly later BT;
2. do a slightly earlier nap so LO is awake for longer before BT; or
3. cap the nap shorter. I would certainly limit it to 2hrs max even if you aren't willing to cap it less than that - 2.5hr naps only ever lead to short nights in our house....as do 2hr naps now, so it would seem!

Just wanted to add that at this age my daughter was only having 45 mins nap a day. This was the only way I could get her to sleep 12 hours a night. By 2, she had dropped it completely. Now at 2.5, she has it occasionally if she is ill/growing/cutting teeth (as she has just been doing) but it does send her nighttime a bit haywire so I do my best to avoid it.

I imagined that she would nap until she was at least 3 which a lot of books say they do, but they're only ever referring to the average child! Some of our little angels need very little sleep overall and the daytime nap can be something of a bugger in how it disrupts nighttime sleep.

I think omama has given excellent advice (as always!) but I would go further on her point 3) that for some toddlers, 2 hours is too much (unless you're happy to stick with the early mornings). I do have a friend who doesn't believe in cutting naps and accepts her 5am starts as natural. I admire her ability but I know I need my sleep too much!

Also, it may seem counter-intuitive to cut the naps right back - my daughter always grizzled and cried when I woke her up as if she was still exhausted, to the point where my partner almost went on strike because he said we were being cruel. But it was the ONLY way to avoid the early mornings, IME.

love - I need my sleep too lol!!!! Can I ask though - was your DD well rested & happy overall for the rest of the day on just a 45min nap? Presumably down to having a full 12hrs at night, right? And did she have no bags under her eyes?

DS has had huge bags under his eyes for most of his life (past 2 months excepted). Now we're getting the EW again they have reappeared fast! So I know I need to act quickly before we head into an OT spiral.

Today we've actually done an earlier nap & BT, just for the point of keeping his day from getting too long. I'm expecting an earlier start again tomorrow but I'm hoping it'll be later than today & over the next few days I can gradually push things back, AND I am going to cap his nap at 1.5hrs. Like love says it seems like the wrong thing to do, but if it leads to a longer night, this has to be better for th than spending all day OT & miserable from waking early.

Once she had woken properly (might need to cuddle in front of CBeebies for 15 mins) she was absolutely fine. No bags under her eyes. I always put this down to her having a good 12 hours at night. But what worked for us doesn't necessarily work for everyone. I had the instinct it was right to reduce the nap as I know of other younger children who were having really short naps in the day and it had helped with EMW.

The only thing to note is that their needs always change so at 2.5, we've had bouts of her needing a 10 min nap again.