10 months and still not sleeping!

[Janoschi]

Hello!

Hoping for some suggestions. DD (10m) has always been difficult to get to sleep. Except for brief moments at 3 months and 6 months, she's woken up several times a night. I don't mind this so much, the trouble is that it's so hard to settle her back to sleep. Since birth she's had very bad wind issues and she still screams and arches her back every time we lay her in her cot. We can walk around for literally an hour after a feed, jiggling and patting to get the burps up and she'll still scream once she lies flat.

We usually co-sleep when it gets hopeless and this works better, though it can still take ages to stop the screams and settle her. If you let her cry, she gets hysterical and it really does sound as though something hurts her. She often looks so so tired and she clings to me sobbing and I just feel awful for her.

Calpol = no real effect
Gripe water = no real effect
BF = good effect til she falls asleep and we lay her down, then it's back to screaming
White noise = no effect
Raised cot head = no effect

She was weaned at 6 months (was EBF til then). Now eats a wide range of food. Can't find anything specific that affects the sleep/pain.

Just at a loss. She still has no teeth... But she's NEVER slept or napped without crying ever so not sure it's related. She's never slept through and she's only ever napped for 10-15 mins twice a day since birth because it's so hard to get her back down again once she wakes up screaming.

Otherwise she's fab. Hardly ever cries at any other time, fab with strangers, great at travelling, loves her food, bright as a button. Just getting so so tired now. Don't want to try CC because she really does sound as if she's in pain...

Sorry for the long post! Just need some suggestions!

Thanks!

It may sound daft but is she warm enough? My son had more disturbed nights than not. I tried and extra cover and now he rarely wakes at night.

Have you ever considered reflux? Most babies would be outgrowing it at this age but my dc4 flatly refuses to. He's nearly 8m and when I reduced his meds a week ago it was clearly a mistake!

Yes I did think reflux early on... Infacol never worked but maybe it's worth going back and trying it again...? Does reflux last months? When does it get easier? Grasping at straws!

Warmth... Have thought of that as we live in a drafty old flat. Just not sure it explains the CONSTANT screaming whenever she's laid flat though. She can fall asleep upright against my shoulder then the second her head touches the pillow she screams. Eventually she sleeps but it takes 4 or 5 attempts every time and each attempt takes 20+ minutes. Typically it's a 90 min battle to get her asleep, then she wakes again writhing after 90 mins... It's so tiring - I end up almost falling over when rocking her because I'm rocking myself to sleep!

Sounds very refluxy to me (not medical, just had lots of refluxy babies!). Infacol will do nothing for reflux. Snacking bf-wise won't help but she may want it for comfort from the pain - it's a vicious circle.

Go to your gp and ask for advice. If you had heartburn at all when pg this is how reflux feels. I suffered badly so would never take no for an answer when dealing with the reflux - the pain was too recent for me to ignore for them!

Sorry - didn't answer it all!

Reflux generally is outgrown by 12 months though for some babies it lasts longer. DC1 had severe reflux and it was virtually gone by 8-10m. DCs 2&3 had it mildly - gone by a few months. DC4 is nearly 8m and still going strong.

But seriously, don't bother with infacol. It's for wind not reflux. Go to the gp and if you have no luck with them insist on a referral to a paed, preferably one with a gastro specialism.

Thank you! She's never been vomitty - is that a sign of reflux? I think she's only been sick twice in 10 months. Have just read up some old Mumsnet threads on reflux and am wondering if I should cut out dairy...? I eat loads if yoghurt and cheese, maybe this has been a problem? DD never liked yoghurt much until 3 days ago and in hindsight, the past 3 days have been hellish. Which is why I'm posting now after 10 months! She's sleeping a bit better tonight so far and she's not eaten any dairy today, though I've unfortunately just demolished a big tub of Yeo Valley full fat organic. Maybe I should try a no dairy thing for a week...?

It is a sign but you can also have silent reflux. That's where there's no 'easy' symptoms like vomiting. Though why they call it silent I don't know - the babies make just as much noise complaining!

Dairy can def exacerbate reflux. DS was put onto a dairy free formula to try and help although it now looks like he's allergic to dairy anyway.

You can try to remove it although it's something you'd have to do for a month or so to really tell and be absolute about it - check all labels as it's something which is in things you might not expect. Salt and vinegar crisps for eg . It might be worth a try though and is possibly something a paed would tell you to try first so if you've already done it you're a step further down the road. Try replacing with soya. It's not too bad though I never got the hang of it in tea!

Popped out and bought lactose-free milk and some soya yoghurt... it's a start. Sadly I'm a butter, yoghurt and cheese freak so this is going to hurt! Worth a try though.

I thought about the fact that reflux feels like heartburn and changed how I settled her last night. Instead of jiggling her and patting her back to get the wind out, I did gentle rocking and stroked her back. She still cried when I put her down but I tipped her onto her side and carried on stroking her back and she fell asleep within minutes. I placed a rolled blanket against her back to keep her on her side and she slept 4 hours solid. After a quick feed and another round of stroking her back, I got her back down in 20 minutes. She cried so I tipped her onto her side again and put the rolled blanket back and she was out for another 4 hours.

Hoping it's not a random blip - 2 x 4 hours is heaven after 10 months of 90 minutes up, 90 minutes down!

Thank you so much for the advice. Really pointed me in another direction and it's good to at least have some things to try, even if they don't all work.

That's encouraging. Lying on the LH side is meant to be best.

You might need to go for soya milk rather than lactose free - they are different.

Is she co sleeping? If not, raising the head end of the cot can really help too but it's quite an angle, a housebrick or two IIRC.

If you get as far as a gp, I wouldn't bother with gaviscon which is undoubtedly what they'll offer you first. It acts as a blanket to stop the liquid regurgitating, but as being sick is the least of her worries, I'd personally ask for ranitidine. This should neutralise the acid so if it still does come up it won't hurt. If this has been happening for a while it might be that she has some sore patches at the bottom of her oesophegus which will need to heal. Gaviscon will only make this worse.

I hope you can get some relief soon. It's a horrid thing to deal with

This is all brilliant advice. I'd say it sounds like silent reflux and it's going on a long time - definitely worth taking her to the docs for a check. It usually (I stress usually - not always) clears up by about 6-8 months when the sphincter muscle at the top of the stomach starts to operate properly preventing stomach acid from travelling back up into the oesophagus (or something like that!).

Ranitidine and domperidone are the two main drugs you'll get prescribed, I've also heard of omeprazole. Gaviscon pretty useless but GPs always seem to prescribe it first. I've found GPs fairly clueless when it comes to reflux, esp. if no symptoms (like vomiting or failure to put on weight).

Raising cot/lying on side also great ideas and it sounds like it's already working for you. Also no jiggling as that just moves the acid around and makes things worse. Good luck, really hopes she starts improving very soon.

Sorry, meant to add that if it's an allergy problem there's a good milk called Neocate. Also the nanny's milk (goat). But if it's mainly a lying down thing, I'd say it sounds more like reflux.

I had a look in Boots today but could only find huge tubs of lactose-free formula powder. Not sure I want to buy a huge tub, just wanted to try a carton or two. Goats milk, considered it but I was raised on a goat farm and now just can't deal with the stuff! Soya milk, also had a lot of that as a kid because I was raised in Snowdonia during the Chenobyl disaster and cows milk was strictly off limits for a while. I hated it but maybe I should rediscover it a an adult!

I'm going to reduce dairy as far as reasonable myself and remove it completely from DD's diet, see how it goes. I'm not sure if it's a big factor or not but the past few days have been screamingly awful and it mightn't be a coincidence that it tied in with when DD finally discovered she liked yoghurt.

We raised the cot last night (a few atlases worth!) and it probably helped contribute to the 4 hour sleeps. I'd raise it more but I've done that in the past and found DD all puddled up at the bottom of the cot after a few hours! Might put another book or two under, see if it helps!

Thanks so much again for the help and thoughtful advice, especially late last night! Was dreading last night and it was great to have something proactive to try. And it worked too so you guys are stars.

Good! I'd either remove it totally from your diet or not at all. As far as reasonable might only have a lukewarm effect. You could just see what removing it from dd's diet does though.

If you're just using the lactose milk for cooking then soya will be fine for dd. In fact our dietician said it was better to use standard soya milk than ds's dairy free formula as it had more calcium etc in it. If you need to stay on the soya then Sainsbury's has a good free from range and I noticed that Tesco have just launched their own all much cheaper than Alprosoya etc.

I hope that it improves but I would still get your gp to have a check and get a referral if necessary.

And I'm always on all the time at strange hours. Any questions, just shout. I'll have a go at answering them!