17mo forgotten how to sleep?

[beigey]

Our 17 month old only occassionally sleeps through - so we know he can - but normally fidgets all night, often crying for a minute then dozing off again (long enough to wake me and leave me lying there waiting for him to wake and need me!). Regularly properly waking between 4-5:30am and needs nursing back to sleep - one of us ends up sleeping on futon with him in his room as he wakes if you try to put him back in cot. He just wants to play if we have him in our bed. Sometimes he wakes around 1pm and is up for a couple of hours! Am a zombie at work - help!

As background, he has a snooze after lunch (up to 2 hours), tea at 5pm, bath at 7, weetabix at 7.30 (HV said this might help and it did to start with), milk in his room and bed at 8pm. He self settles after burp & brief cuddle.

Is it possible that having the TV on quite a lot over this period is disturbing his sleep?

He doesnt seem too hot/cold, wears a sleeping bag, has blackout blind, no nappy rash...

What else to try?!

I would suggest that if he's regularly sleeping 2 hours a day, it may be too much. I know it sounds bizarre at only 17 months old, but I know of one little girl who dropped all her naps at 18 months and I know of another little boy who was on 45 minutes a day at 11 months old.

I think there's a regression about this time, maybe just wait it out a bit?

Can I ask, without being shot down in flames - is the standard answer for a sleep problem - it's regression?

I'm honestly not being cheeky, its just something I read so much on here. I never knew so many sleep regressions existed.

Perhaps it isn't great advice. I suppose by the time you get to 18months you know whether you subscribe to the regression theory or not.

I don't even know what one is - specifically. I have read the 4 month one is agreed on generally by child 'experts'.

I guess I'm the sort of person who always seeks a specific answer and it's never sounded specific enough for me. :)

thanks - but he would never make it through the day without a good nap after lunch.
Regression sounds like 'growth spurt' the other thing I hear a lot. And it's not like he USED to sleep through and now doesnt.
Cut out TV and chasing dad round the dining room tonight so will see how that goes. Not hopeful though - he was miserably tired.

What time does he actually get up in the morning (assuming you are able to get him back to sleep?)

And what time is his nap after lunch? 12.30-2.30?

I certainly wouldn't cut the nap straight out at his age, but depending on your answers to the above, there may be a few tweaks you could make to his routine.

I also think the nursing at the EW could possibly be habitual now - if he is given milk every time he wakes then he might wake looking for it or need it to help him go back off to sleep if he wakes IYSWIM? At his age he shouldn't really need a feed but I understand your reasons at that time of the morning! Is sleep training something you would be willing/wanting to tackle? I personally think if we look at routine first & rule that out as the cause, then you might want to consider settling him in some other way at that night waking & hopefully this would lead to some improvements.x

Yes, agree with Omama. My original comment should have been clearer - sorry - that I think you could try cutting down the nap, certainly not out altogether. Perhaps try cutting down by 15/20 mins for a few days, then 30 after that.

I also agree that if he does struggle to self-settle without a feed, this will always be an issue when he wakes. Hopefully, cutting down on the nap will mean that eventually he will stop waking early and then look for the feed to help him settle back down.

I went through exactly the same with my daughter (I also wondered if TV was to blame but never proved or disproved this and she still watches it, sleeping fine). I gently reduced the amount of time she was asleep in the day as I believe this robs them of their need to sleep a longer period at night (as it would in an adult). By 17 months, she was on an hour max, but obviously they're all different. She cut her nap out completely at 2 years old, on her own.

Sorry, meant to say also that this rarely sorts itself out overnight (partic. if it's been going on for some time) so please don't get disheartened if you don't see a quick improvement. It took my 6 weeks and a lot of conviction to stick with it before she improved.

I know some people might say she would have improved anyway, but after a year of early waking, I disagree. :)

Omama:
If I'm going to work he gets up at 6:15 - other days it can be between 6 and 7:30.
His nap is about 1:15-3:15pm.
NB - we dont give milk if he wakes early unless he wont settle after an hour or more. We tend to go in and "sleep" beside him and he normally drops off quite quickly then.

How many days/week are you having to wake him at 6.15am for work? Would you say he's typically up nearer to 6/6.30am than 7/7.30am most days?

If he generally wakes earlier, then its my guess that those NW's & EW are down to overtiredness. His day is pretty long if he's up from 6am-8pm, & if he is generally up at 6ish, then his nap is actually quite late, starting at 1.15pm. I am wondering if the long stretch awake before his nap may be making him a bit OT, so he's giving a good long nap, but is probably shattered come BT, hence the repeated short NW's & the EW. If he were having too much day sleep, I would more likely expect to see him having lengthy NW's where he is wide awake & wanting to play, so I'm not convinced this is the issue here.

IIWM I would probably try bringing the nap a bit earlier, perhaps nearer to 12.30 & allow him to sleep for 2hrs max. Then put him to bed no more than 5hrs later so at 7.30pm. And see if this helps the NW's reduce & the EW to stop. If he needs to be up at 6.15am 5 days out of 7, I would probably even bring the nap earlier to 12-2pm & BT to 7pm. Then at least he will get more sleep at night on the days you have to wake him up.

What do you think?