Early waker barely sleeping at nursery - what to do?

[fififrog]

I've been lurking around all these early-waking 11mo threads looking for inspiration but a 4.40 start this morning has finished off my patience!

DD wakes too early - at 5.20 most mornings, which is something I'd like to try and sort out if I can. I am quite willing to believe I should do something about her naps but I am not sure what!

On a normal day she has one at 9am and one after lunch, 3 hours after she woke from the first. These usually add up to 2 hours sleep total, but the split varies. Currently the morning one is v long and it is a nightmare getting her to have pm one. I have been thinkin about trying to move her to one nap. On Thurs we do sing and sign in the morning and she has only 10-15 mins in the car on the way and then a decent long one at lunchtime (this week 12.30-2.30) Seems to work ok.

The problem is tues and wed she's at nursery and they seemingly can't get her to stay asleep longer than 30 mins. She has one about 9 and one about 12.45, then they give her a catnap at 4-ish. This pattern is so far off her usual and I worry she needs to catch up some on the remaining days. Also can't see how I can shift her to one nap if she has three there!

Can anyone whose DC slept terribly at nursery tell me what they did on the home days? Does the totally different sleep pattern really matter? Should I stop worrying about her catching up and press on with trying out something different in the hope it helps with the early waking?

Thanks!

hiya

(((hugs))) for the EW I have total sympathy having lived with it for a very long time with my DS, now 18months.

How old is your dd now? I am assuming since you mention you've checked out 11mo threads she is around this age?

IME allowing a long & early nap (9am) will just encourage the EW to continue as she will be using that AM nap to catch up on lost night sleep. Its also my guess that if she's having a long AM nap then the reason you may be struggling to get a decent PM nap is that she may not be quite tired enough to sleep for longer if you put her down just 3hrs after a decent length AM nap.

IIWM I would aim to very gradually delay her morning nap (by 5 mins every few days) and also very gradually cut it back, until it is from 9.30-10am & then aim for a PM nap from 12.30-2.30. If the longer nap is in the afternoon it will a) stop her from using the AM nap to catch up on nightsleep and b) stop her from getting overtired by bedtime, which in itself can cause EW.

She will probably get quite overtired while you do this & you may get some 30min naps. If her PM nap is 30mins (eg on nursery days) I would either give her a CN at tea time to tide her over, or just shoot for an EBT.

As for nursery, how long has she been going? My DS napped terribly at nursery to start with but within 5-6 weeks they started to improve & now he sleeps as well there as he does at home (2hr nap). Will your nursery put her down for nap at whatever time you ask or are they set naptimes? At the moment with a 30mins nap from 9-9.30am, she is likely overtired if she doesn't have her PM nap til 12.45, hence why they are getting a second 30min nap. IME (assuming she is 11mo of course) then I would say she needs that second nap around 2.5hrs after she wakes from her first 30min nap, so that would be 12pm. You might find short term that helps her PM nap extend. If you can then get them to implement the same plan as you to push the nap out later it might help - then you will have a consistent routine both at home & nursery. If they won't be flexible, then I would say go with earlier bedtime after nursery & let her sleep extra on days she is home to help her keep ontop of any OT that accumulates.

Sorry epic post, but HTH.xx

Hi omama, guess you didn't see I PM'd you, thought you'd be most likely to have a suggestion :)

DH and I both agreed the morning nap was getting too long - a few weeks ago she was having 30mins in the morning and things were a bit more stable, but then she got ill, and also with the nursery thing I let her sleep longer a couple of times and it seems a tough habit to break now!

So yesterday I tried waking her after an hour - and failed! She just wouldn't wake up and I'm not willing to manhandle her out of the cot while she's asleep. So she had another 1h20... I thought your idea of starting it later instead seemed good as she never seems that sleepy at 9am.

Anyway today has been an unmitigated disaster, morning nap 9.30 and DH woke her after 50 mins - all good so far - but then she point blank refused after lunch. In the end we went to b&q and she fell asleep within 1 min when we got home. About to go wake her now after 45 min sleep... Not sure what to do tomorrow but might try for Thursday-like routine. It's clear things are changing, the pm nap refusal has to be a coincidence as morning nap wasn't that different from usual. She has been very perky today generally!

Anyway, nursery say they try to go with your routine (for the next three months then she moves room and will be on 12.30 nap only) but it seems to me they just let them sleep when they seem to be tired, except after lunch they def put them all down together about 12.20-12.30 - I guess TBH it is just easier or them with 6 babies to 2 ladies! I can certainly ask them to try to follow my plan, but after today I'm not sure whether to try the same again tomorrow or just try to go for one nap... Or the halfway house of a v quick catnap at 9.30...

Anyway, no doubt we will survive one way or another. Just hoping she manages to make it towards 6am tomorrow - we had 5.10 today. Going for earlyish bedtime again tonight, if she doesn't sleep she doesn't but at least she will have the option!

Cheers

(((hugs))) hun. What time did you try the PM nap today? I wonder if with the longer/later MN whether you may be trying too early.

If you think cutting her morning nap to 1hr or less is too much too soon, you could wake her 5mins earlier every few days, AND push the nap out by 5mins at the same time til its starting at 9.30am. As the nap gets a bit later and shorter, the gap between the AM & PM nap will also shorten a wee bit. Hun, she WILL get overtired doing this, but my best advice to you would be to stay consistent rather than trying something different every day. Trust me I know how hard it is, esp when you see them so tired, but what I have suggested isn't a quick fix. It can take quite some time - but the more you persevere, the sooner she will get the idea.

WRT to trying 1 nap, this typically happens between 15-18 months. Some babies can handle it earlier, but most would struggle & end up rather OT. When we were in your position, I also thought 1 nap might be the answer, & I actually started trying 1 nap days when he was 12 months, but he couldn't handle it for more than a couple of days at a time or he got OT & we got more EW. We didn't fully drop the morning nap until he was 15 months.

HTH.x

Thanks for the repeated plug for consistency, I know that really... But it is hard when your tether is getting rather short....

I did wait 3 hrs as normal before pm nap, but I think (hope) yesterday was just a freakish anomaly. She was very clingy all day though happy, and was seriously upset at bedtime when I left the room - that never happens! after 5 mins DH went and sat with her for 20mins til she fell asleep - she went quiet immediately. I felt really guilty all night because I'd tried to leave her to get on with it! Anyway as he reminded me, tomorrow is another day!

She was fine going down for am nap at 9.25, woke her 10.05, and it took her 15 mins to drop off just now but she was asleep 13.15 - just hoping for a nice long one!

Will Salk nursery to wait til 9.30 for am nap but let them do what they like in the pm - I think that's the best we can do!!

Right better hang up some washing... Sigh!