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Please help me get my two year old to sleep

12 replies

BustyDeLaGhetto · 19/02/2012 20:29

Because I am going quietly mad.

I have posted endlessly on this topic with DD. She has never slept longer than two, maybe three hours unless its in bed with us. No matter how busy her day, how much we fill her with fresh air and new experiences, bedtime is still a misery for everyone.

By December of last year it became obvious that her frequent nightly wakings had eventually taken their toll on me (DP has never done night wakings, initially due to EBF and the nature of his job but also because she will not settle for him in any way.) I began having frequent anxiety attacks, panic disorder and latent agoraphobia. My GP referred me for counselling and I am currently receiving treatment for these although he insisited that sleep depravation was the likeliest cause.

After some discussion DP and I decided we HAD to tackle her night wakings. We had moved her cot back into our bedroom some time before to try to limit the amount of times I was up and down in the night and were still co-sleeping from about ten thirty at night, when she would wake for the second time.

So in December I stopped BF at nightime (this was an easy transition as she had stopped taking the milk and was just doing it for comfort) and DP began to put her to bed and attend to her at night. We moved her cot back into her room and turned it into a 'big girls bed' (i.e took the sides off) and gave her some stickers to decorate it, made a big fuss of it, put her toys in there etc.

Her bedtime is at 7. She has warm milk, a story, cuddles. Then lights out. We have a chair by her bed to sit in while she nods off, and she knows we stay until she is asleep. Her routine is lovely and familiar.

But she won't do it :( If DP puts her to bed she screams like a banshee, last night it lasted for well over an hour and he was right there with her the whole time. This is par for the course. Sometimes she howls at me, trying to climb into my lap, throwing her dummy across the bed, wanting to play with my hair. Some nights I'n in there for nearly two hours, having her crying fitfully and pitifully right up until she drops off. Then two hours later she wakes again and needs to be resettled. She is much bigger now, and a wriggly little kicker in bed so currently DP or I are sleeping in the lounge on the sofabed (she comes with me if I go in there).

The way I see it is that my mental health is currently more important than her sleep problems, and so I have to maximise the amount of sleep I get regardless of how I'm getting it. DP does not agree, and thinks we are far, far too lax. He wanted to do CC and I said no, so now he looks at me as if to say,
"This is all your fault" every time she cries out in the night.

How can we help her peacefully go to sleep ? Its been two years of bedtime screaming and I don't know how else to help her. I am currently reading the No Cry Solution for toddlers which has some good ideas but the last time I tried gradual withdrawal she just got out of bed and followed me laughing, like it was a game.

Any-one with any ideas ? I'll take anything, just to give us all some rest.

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BillyBollyBandy · 19/02/2012 21:17

I would say baby gate on the door, put her in bed, kiss, goodnight, leave. She screams. If in bed leave her, if out of bed put her back in and repeat. I say you, but I would leave it to DP to break the association with you being needed to sleep.

Explain why and what you will do before she goes to bed, at 2 I take it she can understand you okay.

Give it a week and see where you are - I appreciate though that DP may not be able to do a week if working.

I would also stop staying in her room until she falls asleep - again just another propr for her that she needs a parent to nod off.

And do not under any circumstances have her in bed with you, or the sofa bed, or anywhere where you are lying/sleeping next to her. That will just show her that if she goes on enough you will give in.

I know this all sounds horribly harsh, but at 2 she is going to know her own mind and be able to manipulate you artfully. Can you tell I have a 2year old who likes to try and get into our bed?

BustyDeLaGhetto · 19/02/2012 21:35

Thanks Billy I appreciate the input.
She can and does understand but she isn't talking yet so that may be adding to her frustration, as she can't make herself understood.

She went to bed at seven tonight and has woken up twice since then. Its only half nine. She seems to go from sleeping to standing in under three seconds - its as though she is a really anxious sleeper.

I think you're right that I need to break the sleep associations, especially her needing to be so close to us. I would happily continue until she was willing to give it up but its affecting my relationship with DP, not to mention our sex life.

I don't know if I can leave her to cry although it seems she does so regardless - I just feel better about it if I'm beside her while shes doing it so she isn't doing it alone. An ideas why she's so upset ? Its not as though bedtime is coming as a surprise to her - we've had pretty much the same routine since she was 3 weeks old.

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BillyBollyBandy · 19/02/2012 21:43

She is upset because she wants you to be next to her at night time. That is what she has always had, and tbf that isn't unreasonable. How many of us prefer to sleep with our dp's than alone.

But, unless you are prepared to co sleep until she grows out of it, you need to teach her to sleep alone and to fall asleep alone. While making sure she understands you are there for her and she should feel safe and loved in her own room.

Perhaps staying upstairs while she settles may be a compromise? I do this with dd1 if she is being clingy. She also yells and screamson ocassion. Problem is that if I go to her I just prolong it, making her and me upset. If I ignore her, or go in say shush time for bed and walk out again, she actually settles much quicker. Not least because the more tired she is the more fuss she makes.

Please don't think I am some heartless parent who leaves their dc's to sob. However sometimes you need to leave a bit of yelling/crying at this age I think. I would never do that to dd2 for example at 8 months because she doesn't have the understanding dd1 has or the cunning nature

BustyDeLaGhetto · 20/02/2012 11:41

Thanks again Billy I do worry that I'm prolonging her misery simply by being in the room with her, you're right. I do wonder if, when she learns to talk she might surprise me by saying;
"I've been waiting ages to tell you to PLEASE leave me alone while I'm trying to sleep."

I think the worry for me is that if I implement any sort of change it will lead to a few (or several) long nights for me and in turn I am worried about how that will affect my overall mental health as I am making real progress with overcoming the nasty panic I've been feeling. I can't tell if I'm making excuses not to do something just to avoid upsetting her. I just can't believe that she hasn't figured out yet that I don't disappear once shes fallen asleep. As far as she's concerned I may as well be on the moon.

I think I thought (or thought I had read somewhere) that by attending to her when she cries or fusses I would be reassuring her that I would always 'be there' and so thinking she would nod off safe in that knowledge. Grrrrrrrr. Stupid bloody brain thinknig stupid bloody thought things.

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undergroundernie · 20/02/2012 11:48

I think I agree with Billy - she now has the understanding to know it's bedtime and that you want her to go to sleep, and also that if she screams you will stay with her therefore putting off the dreaded going to sleep. You say you wouldn't mind staying if she went to sleep but she doesn't. It could be that your presence actually makes it harder for her to go to sleep because it keeps her stimulated to a degree because she knows she can keep interacting with you (even though it's negative interaction ie dummy throwing. As you say she cries anyway so I think I would be very clear about what was happening starting from the start of bath/bed routine clearing saying 'you're going to have a bath then put your pyjamas on, then I will read you a story and tuck you up. I will go downstairs/tidy washing on the landing whilst you close your eyes and go to sleep in your bed. Then every time she gets out of bed you gently but firmly put her back and go back to the landing. It will probably take a long time and involve a lot of screaming and you could put her back a LOT of times to start. But if you are firm, calm and consistent she will eventually accept it.

The waking in the night is separate and ds3 has just woken from his nap so I must go but it might be that if she learns to happily fall asleep alone the night wakings will reduce anyway but I think they probably need a separate plan.

Iggly · 20/02/2012 12:03

We had real trouble with bedtime when we switched to a bed. In the end, we did our routine, said night night to DS then lights off. I sat in the chair next to his bed. After the first time he got out of bed, I said lie down, it's bedtime and cuddled. Second time, I cuddled then back in bed. Any more after that, straight back into bed with minimal contact or chat. Took up to an hour but a few nights he got the idea he had to stay. He was quite clingy so that's why we stayed. Then we worked on leaving the room (better to just do it than gradual withdrawal for DS).

For night wakings, make sure she's not comfy or cold etc. Dh or I would sleep in her room on the floor next to her bed then lie her down straight away and say night. Sometimes he wanted water. So we gave it but with no fuss. After a few nights the wakings reduced and sometimes he just needed a hand. He's gone back to sleeping through.

Sometimes firm words are needed which I hate but it works - DS knows the rules then.

BustyDeLaGhetto · 20/02/2012 18:59

Ugh. Bedtime soon, I can hear her in the bath. She often starts crying when bathtime ends and bedtime begins. I always assumed it was overtiredness but it's not, it's really not.

Thanks for all the help, its really appreciated and makes me feel less like I'm walking against the tide. underground She certainly DOES have an understanding of what is expected of her but hates to do it alone. I think what I need to tackle first and foremost is the night waking and to do that I need to teach her to fall asleep alone, don't I ?

Iggly I may camp out in her room for a few nights so that all I need to do is 'shush' her from the floor but not take her into bed with me. At least then I won't be running around all night trying not to curse and swear.

OP posts:
BustyDeLaGhetto · 20/02/2012 19:01

Disclaimer: When I say 'I can hear her in the bath' I mean that DP is in there with her. I am not sitting here MNing and leaving her to bathe herself

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undergroundernie · 20/02/2012 19:25

I sleep next to my 17mo on a mattress in his room due to his night wakings which tend to be lengthy during regressions or teeth. My thinking is that way I can lie down and shush, I don't get cold, aren't tempted to take him into my bed or spend ages tramping up and down the corridor. It's working for me, most of the time his nighttime sleep is pretty good (touch wood). This is after suffering for years with ds1 getting more and more annoyed at his wakings which didn't help me or him.

omama · 21/02/2012 21:16

Can I also ask whether she is napping in the day & when/how long for? I think you've had some really great advice from pp's in dealing with keeping her in bed, but am just wondering if there is anything else contributing to her BT antics. If she's still having a decent length nap in the day, it might be she's not quite tired enough to sleep at BT IYSWIM?

BustyDeLaGhetto · 22/02/2012 12:45

She usually sleeps at between 12 and 2 for anything between 45 minutes to an hour or more, omama. I have noticed that if she sleeps past two o'clock then she finds it harder to drop off at night so I limit the late naps. If she doesn't sleep at all in the day (as has happened more and more frequently recently) then she is a misery by night time but out within about ten minutes of going to bed (and crying, obviously, there is no bedtime without a few tears in this house!)

I did wonder if she needed to drop the nap but she is so tired and miserable by the end of the day without it I still think she is getting some benefit from it IYSWIM ?

OP posts:
omama · 22/02/2012 13:53

Had she still been having a good 2hr nap I'd definitely have said it needs to be shorter. But if her nap is usually

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