19 week old sleep (or lack of) and fighting sleep - can anyone offer advice please?

[Bubalie]

Hello, I'm hoping to get some advice from all you clued up mums out there :). My DS is 19 weeks old, he has 3 naps a day not lasting more that 30 minutes, so 1 1/2 hours total. He has his bath and bottle at 6 pm and is normally asleep by 7pm. He wakes up around 1-2am for another feed and then sleeps until 7 am. Now, when I say sleep - he is very unsettled in the night and keeps waking himself up, which then results in me putting him next to me in bed which seems to help and he settles, but then I don't sleep very well. In the past 2 weeks or so, he has started fighting daytime sleep and I have started to rock him to sleep which sometimes takes an hour for a half an hour nap. This week he has started to fight and cry inconsolably when I try to put him in his cot for nighttime sleep. Previously he would have his bath and bottle, I would burp him and then put him in his cot and just sit there for half an hour or so until he falls asleep (mainly as he drops his dummy so I can put it back in before he wakes up fully). One asleep he doesn't need the dummy.
Last night I tried to put him in his cot with the dummy, tried rocking him to sleep and he just cried inconsolably for half an hour!
I feel like I'm doing everything wrong and while he would happily fall asleep in his rocking chair for his daytime naps, he doesn't anymore. Same with the nighttime. Does anyone know what I should try and do as I am so worried that we will develop all these bad habits like rocking him to sleep and giving in and bringing him to our bed. Please, please help :(

Hi there,

Possibly not helpful but I see your post is unanswered and with a 19 week old myself I know how you feel!

Is he overtired? Mine cries inconsolably when he's overtired and is much harder to get off to sleep - at this age they apparently need around 4-6 hours of daytime sleep so this may be having an impact. Is there any way when he wakes from a nap you can try and get him back down for a bit to extend the time? I do this by sticking dummy back in and rocking the pram ( he mainly naps in the pram, indoors!) Are you getting him to nap on a schedule or when you think he's tired? I try and put mine down as soon as I see the first yawn, seems to help...

I should point out at this stage that my DS is a worse nightime sleeper than yours by far so 1) you may want to totally ignore me 2)you may feel cheered that you're doing okay! Sounds like you're doing great getting him to drop off on his own already. Took me months to get my older DC to that stage.

Mine wakes naturally every 2 hours or so, I also end up in bed with him to settle him, as I BF I then inevitably feed him to sleep although sometimes manage to get him back with the dummy instead...So not much advice, but sympathy.

Hi Bobbie, thank you for your post. He never slept a lot during the daytime onlt 3 half an hour naps, he seems to be happy in between, playing on his playmat, lots of smiles etc. so don't think he is overtired. Even if we are out in the car or going for a walk he still doesn't sleep much more most of the time so I kind of think that's normal to him. I have tried to make him go back to sleep by giving him dummy etc. but no he won't go back. I have also read somewhere that they usually sleep around 3 hours in the day at this age, but not this one!! I kind of know roughly when he needs his naps, i.e. usually between 9-10am, between 12-1pm and again between 3-4pm..
Thank you for cheering me up regarding nighttime sleeps :), sorry to hear you're struggling with those too, I really hope they outgrow this stage soon. How long does your baby sleep in a daytime?

Hiya bubalie - just wanted to also drop off some (((hugs))) as I remember the short napping stage well & it was tough.

Many babies go through a stage of this from 3-6months with naps typically lasting around 45mins & most grow out of this at around the 6 month mark. However, I am inclined to agree with PP. IME 30min naps were usually overtiredness. Some babies cope fairly well with OT & still seem happy through the day while others will scream (mine was a screamer), but I would definitely say the difficulty settling at bedtime & the restlessness at night is the giveaway.

WRT naps, you have a pretty good structure there with naps at approx the right time of day if he were napping a wee while longer, but while his naps are short they are probably too far apart. IIWM if his first nap is only 30mins then I would try doing his next nap a touch earlier, so if he sleeps 9-9.30am then I'd try next nap at 11/11.30 & just see if he sleeps a bit longer. It doesn't hurt to try & he may surprise you & sleep for 2hrs!

Hi omama, thank you for your message. I will try earlier naps, the trouble is it sometimes takes an hour to get him to sleep half an hour. His nap this morning was only 20 minutes and eyes wide open, tried the dummy but he was wide awake. We went out midday and he actually slept in the car and in his buggy for almost 2 hours! He never ever did that before, but as a consequence he couldn't sleep this afternoon which resulted in him being a nightmare for an hour before his bedtime! I just don't know what to do with his sleep, I find daytime much harder than the nighttime, maybe because in the night once he is asleep he doesn't cry and rarely wakes up fully. I also know I can settle him if I bring him to bed with me, but am worried that he will get used to it.. :(

Hi Bubalie, just to say that any changes you make will take a while so if you want to try and extend his naps, it will probably take a few days at the very least to see any change.

My daughter was the same as the PP, she couldn't stay awake for more than 2 hours between naps at this age without getting very agitated. Although you say it went a bit wrong on Sat, I'd give it a week of structuring his day so that naps are at the same time and aim for the same length. I'm sure he wont play ball but aim to do it anyway and aim to get him back to sleep if he wakes early from a nap. OVer the course of a week to ten days, the consistency of being put to bed at the same time, may start to get his body clock into some sort of routine.

Thanks love, I have tried and tried to extend his naps but it's just not working, he wakes up after half an hour and is wide awake, dummy doesn't do the trick or even trying to rock him back to sleep. I just don't know what to do anymore! Had a day from hell today, had to rock him to sleep 3 times and all 3 times as soon as I put him down he woke up and cried so have resulted in keeping him on me to sleep for half an hour :(. I will keep trying, thank you all for your advice!

Hiya - if you are rocking him off then you would probably need to hold him for at least 20mins to ensure he's in a deep sleep before putting him down. I always found with my LO that he would wake suddenly if I as much as tried to move him so I only did the cuddling/rocking thing for a while then decided to work on having him fall asleep by himself.

IIWM I would really try going with the slightly earlier naps - maybe try putting him down (i.e aim for him to be asleep) around 2hrs after waking & see if this helps.

Could you take him out for a walk in the pram? You might find the motion helps settle him better & the fresh air will really help you with your sleep stress levels

Hi omama, I think I'm going to have to hold him as he only sleeps half an hour anyway so no much point in putting him down! I will try earlier naps today and see if it helps. I'm also taking him for a walk for his midday nap to see if he will sleep more. Will let you know how we got on tonight :)

Good luck. Like love says, remember these changes can take a while to take effect so you may need to do earlier naps for several days before seeing any results. I often made the mistake of trying something for one day & decided it wasn't working, but I have learned with experience that I was too impatient & I actually made things more difficult by not giving it more time.

Hello, well yesterday wasn't as bad as the previous day. I did the first nap exactly 2 hours after waking up, put him in his swing chair with his dummy and with some help he went off to sleep for half an hour. I then took him out around 12 for a walk hoping he will sleep for more than half an hour, but no, he woke up after half an hour and although I kept walking he didn't go back to sleep and very soon started to make noises and trying to get up in his buggy (and this is a 4 month old!!). So only half an hour lunchtime. I've tried the chair again for his afternoon nap, but he cried and cried and in the end I had to pick him up and rock him to sleep, but once asleep he slept for 50 minutes!! Last night again I've feed him and put him in his cot and didn't have to rock him to sleep but it took a while for him to get off. But again he ended up in our bed most of the night as he is waking up all the time and seems to settle better next to me. Also he does a lot of stretching and straining, is very windy at night, so keeps waking up when on his back, but as soon as i put him on his front he is ok and goes to sleep without waking up. I am so paranoid about him sleeping on his front but he seems to like it much better. Has anyone else experienced this?

Hello, I don't know if this will be helpful, but my experience with DD at this age sounds similar. Her naps lasted exactly 25 minutes. Also it took ages and ages to get her to sleep at all. I ended up trying to time walks in the buggy and car trips to get her to sleep .. not good!

In retrospect I think I got two things wrong:

1. She would sleep on me (or someone else) for hours with no probs. But I hated the idea, so I always put her down after she fell asleep. Then she'd wake up 25 mins later wondering where I was. Little babies often get anxious when they're not in bodily contact with someone, and of course anxiety wakes them up even more. I think this was why she started resisting naps - she associated it with waking up all cold and alone!

1. I was crap at reading sleep cues - always trying to get her to sleep when she wasn't tired, and missing the signs when she was tired. The poor mite must have been knackered.

I don't know what the solution is, but if I had to do it all over again think I'd try something like this:

• Not be in a rush to put her down after she fell asleep - maybe let her sleep in a sling - so she got used to having good long naps, without having to worry that I was going to disappear

• Watch out like a hawk for sleep cues, and see if she might sometimes be happy to lie down and fall asleep somewhere cosy (ie not on me) - but if not, not worry and just give it time. Elizabeth Pantley reckons that if they can even occasionally fall asleep by themselves in a gentle, no-pressure way, that is very helpful for building good sleep habits.

Just wanted to say that if you're currently rocking to sleep, you might want to try holding still until deeply asleep, even if this takes longer than 30 mins. There was an episode of the baby whisperer where the mother wasn't that good at reading the sleep cues so the baby got overtired and cried and the mother would keep feeding.

Tracy Hogg went through her EASY thingy with her and showed her the sleep cues - hands up by face, movements more jerky etc - and then swaddled her, took her into the nursery and held her really still. She cried on and off for nearly 40 mins trying to settle because she was so unused to not being breastfed to sleep, but eventually she fell asleep. Tracy said that a lot of pacing and rocking is counterproductive because it agitates them when they're trying to settle.

theboobmeister thank you for the advice. I must admit he has slept a lot on my chest since he was born as we had bad reflux episodes and that seemed to be the only position he was comfortable in. Plus he settles better at night if I put him in bed next to me!! So what you are saying may be connected to my situation. How long was your DD like this?
Thanks love I may try and see if I can just hold him instead of rocking, although he seems to cry and wriggle as soon as I stop :(.

My goodness your DS really does sound like my DD!!

The nap thing got much better over time - seem to remember she was having quite good naps by about 5/6 months.

Nighttimes were terrible for ages and there were allergy issues which made it much more complicated - but also improved over time. This was nothing to do with anything I did - she just got older, that's all.

I suspect that co-sleeping is probably the only fail-safe way of getting any sleep but of course not everyone likes the idea. I was hugely skeptical about it at first but became a convert soon after DD was born

(((hugs))) 3-6 months is a tough stage for short naps but it does get better I promise! As pp says 5/6 months is often a turning point for many little ones.

I still think that if you get a 30min nap for your first nap you need to bring the second nap much earlier than 12, or he will be overtired & sleep another 30min nap. HTH.x

Thank you theboobmeister and omama for the reassurance. We are still struggling, daytime much worse than nighttime. I'm trying to do earlier naps, in the same place i.e. swing chair for morning nap, cot for afternoon nap etc. but he just screams until I pick him up and he then settles eventually, today I've even kept him to sleep on me as as soon as I put him down he is wide awake!! Still only doing 3 half an hour naps a day.
Nighttime is a bit better although hit and miss, sometimes (like tonight) I put him in his cot with his mobile on and he fell asleep on his own (I was in bed next to the cot and he could see me). Last night I did the same but he screamed and screamed and I had to pick him up eventually. Another thing now is that at night he will not settle and sleep on his back and wakes up crying every half an hour to an hour. However if I put him on his tummy he sleeps solid. last night i finally gave in at 11, had him in bed with me on his tummy and he slept from 11 to 6 without waking. Same thing tonight, fell asleep, couldn't settle on his back for an hour or so and kept waking up, turned him on his tummy and he has been asleep fine. I am so paranoid about SIDS, does anyone else's baby sleep on their tummy?

The advice is generally to place on their backs, & once they can roll over then they can find their own sleep position. This is exactly what happened with my DS - I would place on his back & at about 7/8 months he started to prefer sleeping on his tummy & has done ever since. He usually sleeps on his knees with his bum in the air! I think if he is more comfortable on his tummy I'd probably let him.xx

omama I do let him sometimes now, we've bought that AngelCare monitor that detects the movement and sounds the alarm if no breathing/movement detected. I try to settle him and have him on his back as much as I can, but sometimes the only way he will settle is on his tummy. he did roll over once last weekend but nothing since so am still a bit worried!
I am still having such a hard time with his sleep, I've been in tears most of the weekend :(

You poor thing, what a rotten time you're having

It does sound like he is very unhappy about being put down alone for sleeps. Hate to say it, but this is pretty normal for many babies at this age.

Will he sleep on his back if he's sleeping with you? From a SIDS point of view, that is safer than sleeping on his tummy in the cot - because you are much more aware of his breathing when he's right next to you.

At this stage, I think the important thing is to do what works to save your sanity - and try to forget the worries about bad habits. You can always work on them later, when he's older and more ready for it - but you both need some sleep now!

Hi theboobmeister :) thank you for your encouraging comments :).
He will sleep on his back when next to me in bed, but even then he gets unsettled after couple of hours, but he can go longer on his back when next to me, so I had him in my bed since 12 last night! He slept on his back initially and then I had to turn him on his front around 2 and he slept until 6:30 like that..
Tonight wasn't too bad at bedtime, we got a new mobile/cot thingy that projects pictures on the ceiling and plays nice bedtime rhymes. He was in his cot watching and listening for about 25 minutes, got uncomfortable after a while and started crying, turned him on his front and he feel asleep straight away. No rocking!!!!!! Not sure if the new thingy is working or just a good night. I have breathing monitor on, camera on and have been going upstairs to check he is breathing every 10 minutes!

What we will do for our little ones, eh ... My DD is nearly 7 years old now and I still check her breathing every night!