When and how do I start to teach 10 week old to self settle?

[trio38]

Dd can only fall asleep for naps or bed with some sort of help. We use loud white noise, rocking, pushing in pram or giving her a finger to suck. These all work eventually, sometimes in combination. She is normally awake after her nightfeeds and can usually self settle then without help for some reason (thank goodness).

This would be fine except that her night time sleep has got worse and worse over the last 3 weeks and I feel it's because she wakes and then can't get back to sleep, rather than because she's really hungry. She had a few weeks of sleeping between 7 and 9 hours between feeds at night and would wake around 2 (I would hear her snuffling around) but then get back to sleep. Now she always cries when she wakes then. I've tried settling her later/sticking in a dreamfeed but it makes no diffrence which is why I think it's lack of ability to settle, not hunger.

I've tried to encourage her to self settle - I will leave her to cry for a few minutes as my eldest always had a little wail before sleeping, but she just gets more cross. I try to watch for sleep cues, but she cries within 30 seconds of being put in cot/pram unless there's something to suck and/or white noise.

How do I teach her to do it by herself and is 10 weeks too early?

Thanks

7-9 hrs between feeds at night is unusual in a baby this age. It's also normal for nighttime sleeping patterns to change unexpectedly -for bettter or worse. Little babies need feeding often, including at night. Why do you think she's not hungry? It's not uncommon for babies of this age to feed every 2 or 3 hrs round the clock.

It is not recommended to leave babies this young to cry. I'm not a fan of sleep training methods that involve crying, but they re never recommended before 6 months.

You don't say where she sleeps? At 10wks my daughter was way too early to self-settle - we taught that gradually between 5 and 6 months, but her sleep got really dodgy about 9-10 weeks. What we decided to do which worked a treat for a couple of months til the next issue set in was to move her out of her Moses basket and into a cot in her own room. We stopped disturbing her, she stopped whacking her arms on the basket, and we all got a better night's sleep. Of course you have to convince yourself it's all ok to move them out so young, but for us it was only a move of about 2m, even though it was into another room.

hanks, I might try putting her in the cot in our room (hopefully it'll fit!). she's in a crib at the moment. I think maybe I've been too optimistic about the sleep as my other 2 dcs did sleep through by 10 weeks and were able to settle themselves to an extent. Fififrog, when you taught your dc at 5-6 months, how did you do it?

Kangarobber, I've left her to cry for 2 or 3 minutes because with dc 1 I either let her cry for that amount of time after which she'd often sleep, or I'd spend up to an hour cuddling, rocking and shushing an overtired and very cross baby. I always feed her when she wakes, but when it's at 2am it's a fairly short feed and she doesn't root madly while I'm getting her up which she has done after longer sleeps. That's why I'm wondering if she would go longer between feeds if she could self settle.

Maybe she's just thirsty in the night or wants a cuddle? It's not all about food . It's so confusing when subsequent DCs are different than the first one isn't it! I have three and have found myself a million times saying "well none of the others did this ."

I know people have different views, but I'd be more inclined to try bedsharing than move a baby so young out of the parents bedroom. 3 months is the peak age for cot death, and the recommendation is to keep them in your room for the first 6 months. Babies sleeping alone have been shown to be at increased risk, and that's thought to actually be because they sleep more deeply. So the night waking or stirring, whilst tiring, may actually be protective. They aren't supposed to sleep alone at all day or night at this age. A baby that can't hear other people breathing may not come out of the really deep sleep cycles as easily, so yes you might get more sleep, but your baby would be at increased risk .

I'm not sure the comment that 'babies aren't supposed to sleep alone at all day or night at this age' is based on anything other than personal belief... although please correct me if it is. Does that mean you are supposed to lie down with your baby at all times day or night if they are asleep???

Is your daughter half-swaddled or tucked in securely? The moro reflex is still very strong at this age which could be causing her to jerk awake as soon as she starts to drop off.

loveis I am quoting standard SIDS prevention advice. The NHS satys "The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a crib or cot in a room with you for the first six months."

Here is the UNICEF Baby friendly initiative leaflet on caring for your baby at night, which is endorsed by the Royal college of Midwives and the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths (FSID).

Here is FSID's specific advice on daytime sleeps.

This is not my personal view, it is what all the experts agree. You do not need to lie down with them, but they should be in the same room as you or another adult.

The one bit that there is not agreement on is bedsharing. Sharing a sofa is very dangerous. Sharing a bed with a baby if they were premature, if either parent smokes or smoked suring pregnancy, if anyone in the bed has been drinking or taken any drugs or if baby is bottlefed or can get too hot makes them at higher risk than if they are in a separate cot or crib. Breastfed babies with none of these additional risk factors are at no greater risk bedsharing than in a cot or crib alongside their parents bed. The NHS advice is the one size fits all 'don't bedshare' to discourage many parents who will have the additional risk factors, like bottlefeeding, which is v common.

Ah, I see. Thought you meant literally sleeping together at all times.

My daughter slept in our room until she was 4 months, but to be honest, she did sleep far better when we moved her (we had to as she was being constantly disturbed by us moving around and it was really affecting her quality of sleep).

So much of childrearing is intensely personal, as well as what works for one, won't necessarily work for another. I guess all we can do is share our experiences and help people who are exhausted and emotional with good advice. :)

There was a really helpful webchat recently with sleep researcher Helen Ball from Durham University. It's worth a read .

Kangarobber, I'm not thinking of moving her out of our room yet, just considering putting her in a cot to see if more space helps. I do mostly swaddle her, but sometimes she hates it so we leave her free to thrash. Last night was a good one (10-5.45) and this evening she settled herself at bedtime for ithe first time ever!:) She must be getting MN advice by osmosis. (Or will she now wake hourly for next 6 months as punishment for sharing good sleeping news?)

Kanga, in what way exactly is a FF baby more at risk when co-sleeping than a BF baby?

The research shows that breastfeeding babies only orient themselves to one thing at night: the breast. They always turn and move towards their mother. Bottle fed babies move randomly in any direction and are more likely to end up stuck in corners and/or under pillows etc. Breastfeeding mothers have been shown to be more likely to instinctively adopt a curled-up position around their baby and stay there, whereas in bottle feeding situations, the mother is more likely to lie in a range of positions including rolling over. Formula feeding also increases the risk of SIDS generally compared with breastfeeding (often expressed as breastfeeding decreases the risk -but breastfeeding is the physiological norm, so increased risk of something other than that is technically more accurate).

No time to link now, but look for stuff by researchers in this field like Helen Ball or James McKenna if you want more info.

Thanks!

Hi again, yes i would fully support cot in your room - we didn't have the choice as couldn't fit the cotbed in our bedroom so she had to move out but like I say she's physically about 1.5m away from my head and I can hear everything so I am sure she can too.

OP to teach self-setting we gradually reduced the frantic jiggling rocking over about 2 months until we just had her lying on our laps til she fell asleep, then put her in the cot awake and sat by her. When we were at that point we also stopped picking her up or touching her at night, just went in and sat next to the cot and said some inane "sleepy" phrase every few mins til she slept. It worked very well, she quickly got the hang of it over a couple of weeks. We then left the room when putting her to bed - she usually whinges for a few mins but it's a rare night she's not asleep within 10 (hmm tonight took 20...). She mostly self-settles at night too and I'm more confident there's actually something wrong if she doesn't. And we always give 10mins before going in - even if crying quite hard - though wouldn't have done that til 6 months. Not because of having read that she was then 'old enough' but because DD seemed ready then.

Still you had almost as good a night as us on Thurs :) long may it continue! We just need to crack the 5.20 wake-up call now!

Thanks fififrog. Things are still going well at night here. I'll bear your methods in mind for daytime naps when she's a bit older.

Aha, now naps are a different matter ;-) well I don't feed to sleep but I do sit there with my hand on her back or she stands up and tries to climb out!