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What worked for us. Hope this helps.

870 replies

nectarina · 29/01/2012 21:03

This post is going to be massive - no apologies however.

So I've posted at least 5 queries about DD's sleep and read about 1 billion threads, because DD only napped for 30mins in the day, would only BF to sleep (since a newborn I wanted to get out of the habit, but nothing else did it). She spent the first 5 months in her cot, only for us to end up co-sleeping so we could get a bit of rest. She would BF every 2 hours at least in the night, and by the end she'd wake every half hour before we went to bed. I knew I couldn't do CC/CIO, I'm not strong enough even if I thought that was the right thing to do, but I thought that I would be forced to if things carried on the way they were.

We read No Cry Sleep Solution, which is complicated and didn't work for us.

So a friend had tried a technique, that she recommended and I thought that it was too much of a leap for DD, but i kept the email, and one evening I sort of snapped and decided that IT WAS TIME. DD was 8 1/2months. I don't know from what age this technique is recommended, but I don't think I'd have wanted to do this earlier, as you still have to cope with the baby crying. I knew DD was ready because now she quite clearly has two cries - one properly sad and scared, the other a bit shouty and put on, so when doing this technique you know what's going on (but I'd like to add that I still comforted DD when she was shouty - she's still trying to say something, but I deÞ nitely wouldn't pick her up and panic!)

I'll paste her email to me, hoping she won't mind. We didn't do it in the ten days, as it was just a bit too much, but i wonder if the way we did it made things a bit complicated. So I recommend doing it as laid out.

But now DD takes 20mins to fall asleep by herself (with one of us in her room) in her cot, in her room. and I do not feed at all between 7pm and 7am. Dh goes in in the night and he gives her water in case she's thirsty but she's quite happy without. It takes him no more than about 3mins to resettle her (unless ill).

After starting this at the beginning of January she still wakes up once or twice a night but it doesn't affect me as I wear earplugs and DH goes in! ha ha ha! (I still hear her and wake up, but I don't wake up fully and find it difFicult to go back to sleep) Do I need to tell you how I feel like a different woman?

So here's the email -

^"Ok, this is a plan thing that we first tried with dc1 when we got to the point where we knew something had to change. There seems to come a point where not only do you get tired of 'helping' your baby get to sleep, but whatever you do seems to work less and less - as if they know something has to change too! It takes a bit of work for about ten days or so but mostly the first couple of days you really put your back into it and then it gets easier. I remember vaguely doing it with dc1 and have just rediscovered it with Dc2 she is a bit of a firecracker so I was expecting trouble but babies love to learn something new, especially around this age and she only woke once last night despite having a cold, which is a HUGE improvement. Dc1 found this very easy and never shed a tear. Dc2 screamed 'TRAITOR!!' at me many times during the first night (she does that a lot), so I'm not saying that there won't be some crying because you will be doing something different to before but you don't have to leave her side and can reassure her as much as you need to, physically and verbally.
The idea is that you are no longer going to help her go to sleep - in whatever way - if you rock her, feed her, jiggle her, whatever it is. You can be there and reassure her but it is no longer your job to MAKE her go to sleep. It is your job to support her whilst she does it herself.
First of all, you know that thing that everyone says about having a bedtime routine (which I imagine you already have) is utterly true. By the time they are a toddler, the sound of a running bath is enough to set the bedtime clock going. When you choose to do this thing, it is really important to stick to your bedtime routine without fail for the ten days and it needs to be between 20 and 45 minutes long. Also, this plan also applies to naps, so you need to be able to be at home for naptimes - just until Dd has the thing established - ten days usually does it. Lastly, you are aiming for Dd to be in bed by 7ish in the evening and not much later. If you're like me you're knackered by about half four, so starting bedtime at a quarter past six is no trouble. You've probably done all that so on to the plan. I'll do bedtimes first and then naps.

Day 1, 2 and 3 - Place a chair right next to the cot. Make it a comfortable chair, you may get to know it fairly well. Have a duvet, cushions, iphone, book to hand. Do your bedtime routine and put Dd in the cot awake. She may well not know what to do next and try all sorts of things. If she stands up you can gently pop her back down again but only a few times - if she insists on standing for a bit then let her - it may just be one of those things she incorporates into her own burgeoning routine, and I daresay she is capable of getting back down again by now. You can pat the bed to let her know you want her to lie down. Sooner or later she is likely to sit down for a bit and eventually plop on to her front. She has to find her own way through this so she may try eating her blanket or playing with a toy before she lies down - that's up to her. If she cries, you can pat her and speak to her. As long as you remember that your patting and comforting is not there to get her to sleep, just to help her calm down in this new and confusing situation so as soon as she starts to settle, lighten your touch with a view to taking your hand off her, and stop speaking. She may go back and forth a bit needing you to touch and speak to her a few more times, but each time lessen your touch when she has settled. Stay there until she has fallen fast asleep and creep out. This bit can take ten minutes for some babies, but most fall asleep after 45 minutes. Two hours is the longest on record! I expected Dc2 to be a two hour effort but no - 45 minutes almost exactly. As long as you know that it is going to take that long, you can get through it. When she wakes up in the night, you do exactly the same thing, each and every time. The first few times she wakes, she will probably yell for you, but as she gets the idea that she can drift back to sleep herself, she may just squeak and go back (sounds unlikely? I thought that too.) The idea is that as time goes on you can wait a tiny bit longer before you go in, to give her the opportunity to practise her new skill.

Days 4, 5 and 6 - move the chair a few feet away from the cot. Keep everything else the same except you are further away. Once you have had your bedtime cuddle and put her in the cot sit down. You can still go to her if she really needs you, and you can still speak to her but she may not need as much help by now. Again, wait until she is asleep before you leave. Repeat as often as necessary when she wakes although, again, leave it a few minutes before you go in.

Days 7, 8 and 9 - move the chair to the door or the other side of the room. Make sure she can still see you, but once you have settled her in her cot and gone to the chair try not to go to her unless she has got herself into a daft position and can't get out. By now she will start developing her own strategy to get to sleep, and you will be able to tell what stage she is at, because you've been watching it all the way through.

Day 10 - you have several choices. If you think things are going really well and baby can cope with you not being there you can leave the room and see how she gets on. You can hover by the door out of sight and watch what happens, and reassure her with your voice. If you feel apprehensive about it and think she needs longer you can try the Bustle - instead of sitting down, tinker about in her room, cleaning up or folding washing or whatever. Or you can continue in the chair. The idea of the plan is ultimately for you to be able to plonk and go, but I quite like spending that extra time with DC so I use a mixture of the bustle and the chair. For night wakings you now really have to give her the chance to go back on her own. Wait ten minutes ( I know - such a long time!) before you go in. I got up last night to Þ nd by the time I got to DC's door, she'd already curled up again! That's the main brunt of it. Just bear in mind that the first couple of nights are the worst - she might wake more frequently, but stick at it and you'll see an improvement. The other thing is that when they start sleeping longer in the night they get up properly a bit too early in the morning - but this usually improves over a few weeks as they get the hang of sleeping. I've kind of assumed that you are going to move her into her own room - there's no reason you can't start this as soon as you move her in. If DC get ill and it disrupts her sleep, go back to whichever stage in the plan you think works best. You can sleep in her room if you want to keep an eye on her, but don't bring her in with you.

Naps - Do the same for naps as you do at night times only you can't sit there for as long as it takes - give it an hour and if she hasn't gone to sleep, get her up and feed her or do something different and try again a bit later. If she resists napping like this twice in a day you can resort to taking her out in the buggy or something. just so she gets a bit of sleep in the day. You are aiming at two solid naps a day by the way. If you've started this thing at bedtime the night before, the nap thing is usually not a problem. I can't think of anything else right now! By the way this is based on a Canadian lady's idea. I chose to use it because it doesn't mean leaving a baby to cry. They learn to fall asleep without you intervening, although you might argue that your presence is a sort of intervention, but before long you will find yourself saying goodnight and shutting the door, because she'd not taking any notice of you anymore!" ^

So for us the First night it took 3 hours 10mins, which is why for nightwakings later on that night I just fed her instead of sitting with her. Within the first few nights she woke LOADS less and then DH would go to her and he would just ask her to put her head down and she would and go straight back to sleep. Needless to say that sort of thing just wouldn't happen before. So if I remember rightly it was only after 4 or 5 nights that I stopped feeding her. The other thing we've found a bit hard is waiting a few mins before going in to her when she wakes. We just give it one or two minutes more than we'd usually do instead of waiting 10.

DH would like to add that he thinks the important thing is to teach DC to put their head down and close their eyes - he says' put your head down, put your head down, now close your eyes' and repeats it a bit like a mantra gently until DD does, and then stops as soon as she does what he says. He says for our 9month old that after a week she knows what it means and does what he suggests! He says that this is useful in the night and that's all he needs to do to get her to go back to sleep.

For the first night I recommend a large glass of wine that you take in with you. For the second night, have the bottle waiting for you on the table in the lounge. Also on the first night we both did it together for a bit of moral support and took it in turns but I'm assuming that none of you is as much as a wimp as I am.

I hope this isn't too much of a mess, my friend's writing is very clear, and mine is all over the shop. I'm just a bit enthusiastic about how its gone. I hope this is of use to someone.

OP posts:
SleepForTheWeak · 22/07/2015 18:13

We had 7 wake ups, fed her 5 times Confused

Let's see how tonight goes...

Chickenorbeef · 23/07/2015 06:16

Sounds familiar. Thats pretty much how my nights go, and he's up for the day at 5am Confused I think I'm going to tackle the night feeds first, as surely he will still wake feeling genuinely hungry as he's been used to regular feeds through the night. How was your night?

cosmicdancer89 · 04/11/2015 18:55

Reviving this thread as I'm implementing this strategy and although there's improvement, I'm totally knackered. Would be nice to hear from anyone trying the same right now.

fondationmaeght · 04/02/2016 14:19

Hoe did you get on cosmic?
I'm going to try next week

fondationmaeght · 11/02/2016 20:23

Anyone had recent good results with this?

Nan0second · 12/02/2016 11:23

Yes. Us at 8 months.
She still wakes. We haven't night weaned as she is a very distracted feeder with cmpa so I have no better way of getting calcium in her. However, we are down to 1 max 2 feeds a night and the trend is that the gaps are getting longer. She is self settling to sleep with me out the room 50% of the time and with me shushing only the other half. Last night she woke a couple of times but settled herself so fed once at 3am and then needed help to resettle at 5.45. Wake up 6.45. This is all with a 7pm bedtime with max 10mins mild fussiness.
Her teeth are causing real trouble at the moment so some nights aren't great but overall it is 100% better than a month ago!

fondationmaeght · 12/02/2016 15:40

Thanks Nan
How long did it take?
My LO is so clingy for the boob! It's quite hard to leave her in cot she's almost getting in a bad state.

Nan0second · 18/02/2016 03:19

Erm a cross between 1 night and an ongoing process!
The worst was over in a night (went from 5-6 wake ups and ages to get back to sleep to 2 max 3.
We haven't night weaned due to cmpa limiting alternative calcium options but she now has 1 full and 1 half feed per night. There are nights where she's only woken once!
However she's teething and learning to crawl and we've had a couple of trips away so it is always 2 steps forward and 1 back...
We also haven't done it for naps as she has these in the pram (and I don't have the strength to alter this to be honest. although she does now have 1 long and 1 short nap consistently and is a very happy soul!

Nan0second · 18/02/2016 03:20

(I don't feed to sleep for naps though but I do jiggle pushchair a bit for 5 mins then leave her to sleep!)

angelicjen · 18/02/2016 04:07

I want to try this but what worries me is how do you know if your baby is waking in the night because they are hungry and need to feed or if they need the comfort of feeding to go back to sleep?

Nan0second · 18/02/2016 09:47

Angelic: if over 1 (and some would say earlier) you could try night weaning.
for me I try to settle her first for 10mins but her hungry cry is very different to her "I can't let myself sleep" cry.
The key is if you do choose to feed that you put baby back in the cot awake every time. Then you know they aren't hungry!

tiredybear · 18/02/2016 19:26

This has been working for us. This post popped back up just when I was at an incredibly low ebb about the lack of sleep and 2 hour screamathons in the middle of night.
Have been doing it since Monday and it has worked wonders! He was able to get himself to sleep before this latest development leap, so maybe that's why it's been so quick..but literally within two days he will now willingly, of his own accord, lie down in his cot and actually go to sleep. :-)
Normally takes about 10mins of him playing and standing up. I just lie on the bed next to his cot now and don't do or say anything...and no tears!
Middle of the night wakeups have also improved no end. No more screamathons! He wakes up still (but LOTS less frequently) and quickly resettles.
Re night weaning...DO IT! I waited ages, until he was 8.5months. I thought he'd find it really hard, but...nope, 2 nights and he didn't want a feed again from 7-4am.
This week (10.5 months) I've just dropped the 4am feed. Offering him water instead and he seems quite happy with that ... so wish I'd done it sooner!

Nan0second · 18/02/2016 23:58

Tiredybear: how did you night wean? DD is now 8.5months and I'd like to encourage her down to one feed if possible...

ppandj · 19/02/2016 02:01

I think I am going to have to try this. I'm at breaking point from tiredness and I feel like I've done everything wrong for DS's sleep.

What do I need to have in place before giving this a go would you all say?

tiredybear · 19/02/2016 14:15

NanOsecond - to nightwean originally when he was your LO's age, I got my OH to cuddle him when he cried in the night and offered him water. It was a rough night or two but it really worked a lot quicker than I expected. He still persisted in being unsettled and upset around 4/5am so I figured he was genuinely still hungry then, which is why i kept that feed going. It made things so much easier. He still woke up lots but it meant my OH could settle him sometimes and I could get some sleep.

Good luck!

tiredybear · 19/02/2016 15:09

ppandj - I'm really no expert but I'd say try to get into a routine that you stick to for naps and bedtime. Doesn't matter what it is, whatever works for you, but stick to it, so they learn when it's sleepy time. I also accepted that i had to stay close to home for a while so he could have his naps in his cot.

zahaziland · 19/02/2016 16:13

For what it's worth, I started this last Friday, and for the past two night he DS has slept from around 8pm to 7am without waking!
Needless to say this is a huge improvement.
DS is just 8 months old, and was night feeding until last week (I would take in bed with me and bf, 2-3/night). I just got to the point of being so tired, that I was ready to try anything. The first couple of nights were really tough, and we spent a lot of the night next to his bed patting, soothing.

My only slight concern is that is flips over to his tummy at some point during the night. I turned him over to back at 4am last night (he continued to sleep) but after 15 min he was on his tummy again.

tiredybear · 19/02/2016 16:22

zahaziland - that's fantastic news. so pleased for you! The world is a different place when you're not exhausted isn't it?!

My DS normally sleeps on his tummy now. Can your LO turn from tummy to back? If so, I think it's fine to leave him to sleep as he wants to. I think tummy is only a risk if they can't get themselves out of that position.

zahaziland · 19/02/2016 19:03

tiredy, I'm still actually waking at night, even if DS isn't! Confused I think I am so used to waking multiple time a night, I need to sleep train myself to sleep through the night again!
But, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Yes, DS can flip from back to tummy and viceversa quite easily. So I guess it should be ok. He does sleep in a sleep bag though, which I worry makes turning over more difficult.

Nan0second · 19/02/2016 19:48

It's totally safe to leave them on their tummies once they can flip themselves both ways :)

tiredybear · 20/02/2016 16:00

yep, my DS is in a sleep bag too and it doesn't slow him down at all.

Outaboutnowt · 20/02/2016 16:19

Does anyone think this could work with a nearly 17 month old?
DS is good at bedtime and will fall asleep within about 10 minutes with me sat next to his cot.
The issue we're having is that he then wakes up at about midnight and will just not resettle unless I bring him into our bed. He doesn't want water or a nappy change and he's not teething, he just wants me. This would be fine but I'm then woken up regularly through the night by him kicking me, shuffling, waking up and trying to get out of bed.. He's just so restless when he's in our bed and sleeps more soundly in his own cot.
I would just like a decent nights sleep in my own bed without an invader taking up nearly all the room, but am at a loss about what to do about it!

tiredybear · 20/02/2016 19:09

Gotta be worth a try! I guess it'll be a battle of wills for a few nights though, with your DS doing everything he can to get your attention and get in your bed. If you stick to it though, he'll eventually get the message and you'll both get better sleep, so worth the upheaval....
Good luck!

Outaboutnowt · 21/02/2016 09:38

Thanks tiredy - I started it last night and a battle of wills it was! He woke up 4 times and every time I waited about 5 minutes then went into his room and sat by the cot instead of just bringing him into our bed. He was a bit cross with me that I wasn't picking him up and cried and shouted 'no!' for about 10 minutes until he laid down and went to sleep. I held his hand a couple of times too to reassure him. But I'm happy because he stayed in his cot til half 7 Smile (this has never ever happened) it feels like a step forward at least.

All seems to be forgiven today and he is his usual bouncy self but I'm ready for round two tonight! I am shattered today though!

Nan0second · 21/02/2016 11:49

outabout wow that's brilliant. Bet you're exhausted. However this will pay off rapidly I think! Stay strong!

We are having a terrible time. Trying to crawl, teething and a bit snotty plus we've been away for 4 nights. I'm exhausted and at the end of my tether. I probably need to do the process for naps and encourage her to drop the second night feed but it's all a bit too much at present. Just keeping on settling her in the cot though...