I need to rant - surely the Ofsted 'sleep' rule is unreasonable?!

[Smittals]

I fully recognise the fact that nursery is a tiring environment and small children will more than likely need to sleep, whether they nap at home or not. But if 2.8yr DS sleeps for longer than an hour, he can't fall asleep at bedtime. Yesterday he had a peaceful TWO HOUR sleep at nursery in the afternoon and didn't go to sleep again until 10.30pm - he was wide awake, not in an overtired way but just happy and active.
I've talked to the nursery staff lots of times about this, but it is an Ofsted condition that a sleeping child is not to be woken as it is 'not in the child's best interest'.
I want to weep/scream - an uninterrupted day time sleep that shortens the night sleep so much can't be in a child's best interests either? I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, as to me this just doesn't make any sense. DS is really tired this morning after his short night, and off to nursery again, for the whole vicious cycle to repeat! I feel some modification of the rule is required - I don't agree that a really tired child should be kept awake, but how about a cap on the length of sleep at the parent's discretion? Anyone with me on this?

I work at a nursery and we wake the children if a parent asks as it is the parents wishes that is totally wrong they let ur ds sleep that long if u don't want him too I also have a ds2.9 and if he has any sleep he will not go bed so I can empathise. I have never heard that that's wot ofsted say I'd defo approach nursery again.

I kind of agree with you, but lots of people won't!

I wake DD from naps for a variety of reasons (from needing to go out sometimes, to wanting to engineer a decent midday sleep,etc.), but for some people, it is an absolute no-no.

DD is 11mo and nursery sometimes have her asleep at quarter to 6 when I go to pick her up, so I have to wake her anyway! I didn't know about the Ofsted rule, but that helps explain why nursery have seemed to not really 'hear' when I have asked them to plan her sleep a bit more.

So, yes a bit unreasonable, IMO, but I know lots of people don't seem to have any kind of schedule or evening bedtime at all so I don't suppose it matters to them.

D

Aah, interesting from Musso not Ofsted at all!

Change nursery if they insist on continuing with this. Today he'll have a nap in the morning AND the afternoon if you're REALLY lucky so he won't go to sleep until 1am.

I believe it is an OFSTED thing there have been threads on it before both from parents complaining and childcare settings commenting on it.

Just checked in my eyfs that sets out ofsted legal requirement there is no mention of sleeping except that when I did the course for eyfs they told us not to put down c for sleeps if the c falls asleep then that ok as long as ok by parent.

Sorry, I should have searched before ranting . I have just found a nursery manager commenting on this on another site. She says it is an Ofsted requirement not to wake a child but when the parents of a child in her nursery complained about long sleeps, she asked them to sign a waiver giving their parental permission for the nursery to wake their child, and this was accepted by Ofsted. I am going to email Ofsted and get their take on this as it sounds like the answer!

Musso: Thanks for that, I will also see what the actual wording is then if sleep is not mentioned specifically in your info.

At DD1's nursery they definitely wake the children if that's the parents' direction. DD1 is 3.10 and I think I'm the only parent who doesn't have a "wake her after half an hour" or "don't let her nap at all" directive in place (she sleeps fine at night however long she naps in the day).

Oh my word "in the the child's best interests", parents know what is in their childs best interests, not offsted!! Clearly the person who came up with that has not got a clue.

Incidentally my DH works for a large nursery chain and they wake the children on the parents say so. When you sign your child up for nursery you get a form which you have to complete which outlines how you want your child to be looked after, nothing that needs signing, just completing so staff know how to look after the child accordingly.

OK, update: I had a reply from OFSTED (they word it as if they think I'm a nursery worker btw)
'Please be advised the EYFS doesn't state specific guidance on waking children however, you need to ensure you are meeting the requirements of the early years foundation stage which states providers must have effective systems to ensure that the individual needs of all children are met.
The key person should meet the needs of each child in their care and respond sensitively to their feelings, ideas and behaviour, talking to parents to make sure that the child is being cared for appropriately for each family.' (my underlining)

...which is good news because as Musso pointed out, the whole 'can't wake a sleeping child' is not specifically stated. However, this leaves me having to talk to the nursery manager again, this time from the uncomfortable position of pointing out she may () have misinterpreted the guidance. I don't know how I would handle that sensitively really, as she's a forceful character who I like and respect from previous settings. Maybe this interpretation also depends on the opinion of the OFSTED inspector who visits the nursery, which might be another way of approaching the subject.

I managed a baby room for 5 years, I have never used OFSTED as an excuse for not waking sleeping babies. I used to dread parents who asked for limited sleeps or no sleeps at all because it was really hard on the children sometimes. I used to be very open and honest with parents that as hard as we would try to follow their routine if we felt it was in the best interest of their child at that time we would follow the childs lead. We would always try and wake the child at a set time but if they wouldn't be roused we would leave them to sleep and try again in 20 minutes. If a parent asked for a child not to be put down for a sleep but it got to the point they were falling asleep in their dinner or very upset because of tiredness we would put them down for a sleep. We often went out for walks or trips on minibus where its impossible to limit sleep anyway.

I think the best thing is keep talking to staff about it in a reasonable way its likely they are making a decision to do what's best for your child at that moment in time. I genuinely did what I thought was best for the child and not for the parent. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I took it that it was my job to meet the childs need above everything else and was entrusted by the parent to make that judgement in their absence. If you feel the setting is not meeting your childs need and is not genuinely acting in your childs best interest you should maybe look for an alternative. At least they are being honest with you, they could just be telling you your child only slept an hour when really they had napped away all day!

I managed a baby room for 5 years, I have never used OFSTED as an excuse for not waking sleeping babies. I used to dread parents who asked for limited sleeps or no sleeps at all because it was really hard on the children sometimes. I used to be very open and honest with parents that as hard as we would try to follow their routine if we felt it was in the best interest of their child at that time we would follow the childs lead. We would always try and wake the child at a set time but if they wouldn't be roused we would leave them to sleep and try again in 20 minutes. If a parent asked for a child not to be put down for a sleep but it got to the point they were falling asleep in their dinner or very upset because of tiredness we would put them down for a sleep. We often went out for walks or trips on minibus where its impossible to limit sleep anyway.

I think the best thing is keep talking to staff about it in a reasonable way its likely they are making a decision to do what's best for your child at that moment in time. I genuinely did what I thought was best for the child and not for the parent. Sorry if that sounds harsh but I took it that it was my job to meet the childs need above everything else and was entrusted by the parent to make that judgement in their absence. If you feel the setting is not meeting your childs need and is not genuinely acting in your childs best interest you should maybe look for an alternative. At least they are being honest with you, they could just be telling you your child only slept an hour when really they had napped away all day!