Going from 2 naps to 1, or trying to - help!

[Oceanmagic]

Hi

My DS is 14 months old. He used to be good at napping, but he's been getting really erratic.

Used to do 45 mins to 2 hrs from 9.30 ish, then another 45 or so around 3.
Now he sometimes refuses the am nap, or if he has it it's only 45 mins. The later nap we now have to walk or drive him to get him off.

I've tried a few things, but none totally consistently: later am nap, 10, 11, after lunch at 12.45, none seem to result in a longer sleep. The later the nap the more of a problem because he'll still need a pm sleep but won't want it until later, interfering with tea and bedtime.

He's also taking longer to go off in the evenings. Kicking his legs, calmly, no crying, for about 20 mins after he's in bed.

Generally he wakes between 7 and 7.30am, although I've had some early wakings after very short nap days when I think he's overtired, and he goes down between 7.15 and 7.45pm. He's so far (touch wood, everything crossed,) sleeping at night.

I'm getting a bit bogged down in it all, and that's without trying to get to toddler group, library rhyme time etc around all these sleeps..

Can anyone shed any light? Is he wanting 1 nap? How do I get him to just have 1 at a reasonable time that gets him to bedtime reasonably happy? Should I just go along with 2 45 minutes, but what if he am refuses?

Thanks

How about keeping him busy in the morning, then moving his lunch a bit earlier (say 1130) followed by a good nap around 12ish?

DS used to have a short morning nap during his transition ton1 nap. I cut it to 20 mins to make sure he went down after lunch at 12.30/1.

It took weeks though - some days he'd have no morning nap, other days I'd have to take him for a walk to get him off to sleep. I basically made sure the pm nap stayed as that would be his 1 nap when he finally dropped the other one. The morning nap I became more flexible about eg he could fall asleep on the way somewhere. He had to be awake by 10am though otherwise he wouldn't nap later.

It was about this age that my DS started to not want 2 naps. There will be a phase where it is difficult to keep him awake by about 11:30, DS was better at nursery where more stuff to keep him busy, he actually switched to one nap at nursery before he did at home. Agree with others, early lunch then nap just after midday. DS now 22 months and naps 12:15 till 2 most days.

That's a good idea. Do I just jump to that or move the morning one gradually?

At the moment he's wanting his second nap right over tea time, causing eat or sleep questions, and not wanting to let him sleep too near bedtime. It seems like that one could eventually creep to bedtime, if you see what I mean.
12.15 till 2 sounds dreamy!

what smumty said,that's what i did with my 14mo DS who used to be a cat napper (2x45min)
Now he knows nap time is coming after lunch (11.30) and he'll sleep 1hr 30-2hr 30 ;)

I second what Iggly said - I also cut my DS's morning nap really short during his transition, as for us, that ensured we got the PM nap.

I tried it the other way & gradually pushed the morning nap a wee bit later, but he very quickly refused the PM nap, meaning a VERY long stretch to bedtime. I think once you are at that stage you can probably just work on gradually shifting the nap towards lunchtime, maybe 15mins later every few days/week, and do early bedtime rather than the catnap. If you think your son can handle a bit of OT you could just jump to 1 nap but you need to be prepared for some short naps & OT for a few weeks while he adjusts.

Well, Monday he didn't want a morning sleep, he had 1hr 10 at 1pm

Yesterday woke him after 20 mins of morning sleep. Wouldn't go down at 1, beyond tired and distressed by 2.20. Walked him off for 45 mins from 3, he woke himself

Today, cos OT, he woke at 6.15am! Trying him with a sleep now - 10am- not sure what he'll do.

Now what? Any suggestions???

If I'm honest I think you need to try something consistently for several days in a row. Switching between 2 naps/1 nap/later nap/earlier nap isn't going to help b/c he won't know if he's coming or going, & you won't know what is or isn't working. I know this is easier said than done at this age - trust me I have been there. But having got through the other side of the 2-1 nap transition I can see that switching it up all the time (which is what we did too) didn't help things.

If you want to hang onto the 2 naps as long as you can it might be your routine needs tweaking a bit. If he's refusing to go down at 9.30am these days you might want to aim for nearer to 10am for 15/20mins & then a PM nap at around 3hrs later.

I think if he is frequently refusing the AM nap & you think he can handle the 1 nap days ok I would just try going for it. However, if he's getting up at 7/7.30am most days I wouldn't push him as late as 1pm for the nap - that's a pretty long time for him to be awake & he is likely to be OT for his nap - which is what I suspect happened on Monday.

IIWM I'd probably aim for nap at around 5hrs from WU at the most. And repeat this for a good week or so, possibly even 2, to give him time to get used to it. Only then can you make an assessment of whether its working.

While you do this, watch him closely for signs of OT. If he does a short nap give him an earlier BT. If his WU starts to creep earlier, or he is clearly tired, you may want to consider throwing in an occasional 2 nap day to help him catch up a bit.

Thank you! So much sense.

Did a two nap yesterday, as EW is usually OT. He slept for two sets of 1 hr.
Was hoping for better today but he woke even earlier at 6 today, not having really been asleep until getting on for 8 last night. Put him down in good time but he was wriggling around. Think it might have to be a two nap again, as still feels OT.

I was really hoping up do the same thing consistently for a while, I totally agree that chopping and changing must be so confusing for him.

However I really felt the waking after a little 20 am nap threw him. I don't think he 'realised' he'd only had a short sleep, so when I put him down at 1 he really wasn't having it.

So might have to be one nap most days, with 2 to catch up when necessary.
Also - scared of early BT! Won't he just wake earlier, making the one nap earlier, then longer till bed etc etc???

Glad you got through it! Gives me hope that there's an end to this...

early bedtime won't necessarily make them wake earlier. IME if my LO does a short nap & I dont do EBT then he would be overtired & struggle to settle to sleep & have a very restless night & most likely EW. There were times we put my DS to bed early at 6pm instead of 7pm (that was my absolute limit though-no earlier than 6pm) & he would sleep til 6.30am the next day. And I suppose the way you have to look at it is that even if they do wake a wee bit earlier than usual, they will at least be better rested than they would be if you had held them out til usual bedtime IYSWIM?

there is an end in sight though hun! good luck!x

For goodness sake! Getting worse.

Yesterday he had 2 1 hr ish naps. Woke at 5.45am for 45 mins but went back to sleep. He woke himself at 8.
Tried him on morning nap, didn't want it. Now tried him for a 12.30, won't sleep. Going to try to walk him to sleep.

I'm not sure if I've got any more ideas now. Anyone?

Hiya

(((hugs))). As I said in a previous post, I think you need to stick consistently with the same thing & 5hrs awake is a good time to start. My guess is that with an 8am WU he might not have been quite tired enough to sleep at 12.30pm. Hopefully he would go down at around 1pm though.

Does he take a good lengthy nap in the pushchair? My son will only ever sleep for 30/45mins max so we always do his nap at home in the cot, where he will nap for a good 2hrs+ (if I let him! - we cap at 2hrs or we get EW)

Perhaps something you could do whilst you establish a good 1 nap routine is to wake him at your preferred/ideal wakeup time if he is still asleep. We do this with my DS & wake him at 7am if he's not woken up himself, otherwise he won't be ready for a nap at the usual time IYSWIM?

HTH.xx

Agree with omama about consistency. It's a tricky little stage this transitional bit. We started having very early morning wakings but stuck to a plan where if she didn't get to sleep before 10am then we went through till lunch.

At 11mo she'd just lay there chatting so we brought lunch forward a bit 11/11.30 then got her down at about 12 for about 1 3/4 hours roughly.

At 13mo she's now dropped that morning nap completely and has her long nap from 12.30.

It did take a couple of weeks but we all got there in the end and she's on a 7 - 7ish schedule.

Thanks both

Omama - I would always wake him at 7.30 if not awake, but he was awake from 5.45 to 6.30, but went back to sleep so I thought he might need to catch up. It was pushchair because he was getting himself really worked up in the cot, and from that point we've almost never managed to get him to sleep in his cot. In the pushchair he would at least sleep a bit! He did 45 mins from 1.30 in the end.

Smellsof - if she went down before 10, did you then do a pm nap or EBT?

Thinking I might have to tough out one sleep regardless of thinking he needs an am one...

Good to know you're there...

Also - I'm in tears half the time and I'm finding it do hard to enjoy him. Seem to be forever checking if he wants to sleep and having to re configure the day. So hard to get out and do anything/see anyone cos I never know if we'll be available.

Is this normal?!?!

(((hugs))) hun. I know its easier said than done but try not to let sleep take over. This is a difficult stage when they are between one & 2 naps - just try & remember it is only a phase & will have passed before you know it. Your DS will be developmentally changing so much right now - I am amazed how much mine has changed in the last couple of months & he is so much fun to be with.

WRT naps - if you truly feel he still needs 2 naps - you know what? Mothers Instinct is usually right. How about trying my previous suggestion of a slightly later AM nap of 15mins at 10am & then shooting for a PM nap at about 1/1.15pm? He's clearly not wanting to go down at 9.30am anymore, so trying a slightly later nap he might surprise you & take it.

Slightly earlier bedtime but not by much as I found a decent nap at lunch usually got her through ok.

I'm not sure what he wants now. Some days he'll go down around 10, other days he won't. I've been stretching him from 9.30 to 10 for the last few weeks, but that doesn't help the data when he doesn't want it at all!

I did one day (I know!) of capping his 10am nap, but it really threw him. Woke up fine, am fine, put down for nap, wasn't having it, as posted earlier. Scared me, unsettled him, 3 days of EW, that may or not be the cause!

Having said that, he had 50 mins today from 1.30 in pushchair. Will sleep longer in there but didn't today. He's been fine all afternoon, went for EBT, so far it's quiet up there. Just the gamble of what he'll do overnight/in the morning. That's the bit I hate. It's one of the last hangovers from PND - the uncertainty of it.

Thanks for being there. Will chat over your fab suggestions with DH, who is on morning duty tomorrow do I can get sleep and hopefully some perspective!!!

Today's update:
He slept 7 till 6.30, put him down at 11.30, after a snack, he absolutely was not having it. Screamed and cried until we got him up.
Now going to do lunch and try him again. If not, it'll be pushchair.

We took him for a short walk around 10.30 and he was trying to doze off so he was tired, but that prob just motion in pushchair.

And it's only day 2...

Ooh great night! How did yesterday pan out?

WRT today - oh dear. Do you think he might already have been OT at naptime given you said he seemed tired in the pushchair? Hopefully you will manage to get him down ok. Dont leave it too long before trying again or he will definitely be OT & you might get a fight on your hands & a short nap to boot.

IIWM I would just keep going with things hun. The best thing you can do for him is be consistent.

One other thought though - how often does he actually nap in the cot v the pushchair? Do you think this screaming could be b/c its not what he's used to, or he has learned you will come back & get him up if he does? Am not saying this is the case, am just scratching my head trying to come up with a reason for the resistance.

Final thing I can come up with is that he might not be tired enough, but I don't think you can really base that on one day of screaming. Esp since he's only just switching to 1 nap - going straight to 5.5hrs awake before nap is a big jump. If it helps, my LO (at 17 months) is currently doing:

WU: 7am
Nap: 12.30-2.30 (I always put him down 5.5hrs after waking so if WU is a bit earlier so is nap)
BT: 7.30pm (again if nap is a touch earlier so is BT)

At your LO's age we were doing more like:
WU: 6am
Nap: 11am-1pm
BT: 6-6.30pm

Hope the rest of the day turns out ok.x

Yesterday ended up at one 45 min sleep around 1.30, EBT and less overnight sleep than he'd usually do. Normally does 7.30 till I wake him at 7.30 if he isn't already stirring, which he usually is.
Walked him to sleep today for 55 mins at 1pm.
His morning nap was always cot, and I've been doing the same wind down for new nap as for that one. The pm one was usually pushchair or car, as we've had little luck with getting him to do that one in his cot.

It may be that he knows I'll come back with that much crying, but he is so near to vomiting (he does that a lot, or used to, worked out that he could vomit if he felt like it, so did!) that I don't want to set up cot =vomit=mummy associations.

So stick with 5 hrs awake and see? It's so weird cos I'm used to everything starting at 7.30, do these 6 odds are throwing all the timings right out. And fitting lunch around it all was an issue today. Snack before tried nap, but then had to do lunch before walk otherwise it would all have been too late.

Thanks again.x

OP did you say he cries so much he vomits?? Or have I misunderstood?

Hm, vomitting. Here goes.

DS worked out that he could vomit at will. Usually at meal times when he was full or bored with the food. Also will vomit a significant amount of stomach contents after a small taste of a food he doesn't like. He'll work up enough to vomit rather than just spitting it out.
This has largely eased off, we went onto almost exclusively finger foods to make it harder to regurgitate and in the last week he's had new foods he didn't like, but didn't vomit. The things we put up with!

He also vomits when he has a heavy cough - GP assured us this is fairly usual.

So when he's in cot and getting very wound up, crying and coughing and beginning to sound like the start of vomitting I get in there. 1 to calm him down, not being at all a fan of CIO, and 2 so as to stop him realising that it's a way to get me in there.

He has always been suspected refluxy - was on meds until fairly recently. Think his recent coughing might be the next reflux thing. Have humidifier in his room and prop head of cot up with 2 Argos catalogues. Ringing in the morning for docs appt but it'll be a while before I get the doc I need.

Oh bless him getting into such a state. OK, so I've not got any real experience of vomiting with my own child, but here's what I would do in that situation.

If he does vomit & you believe he is doing it for attention, then clean him/it up matter of factly, but without creating a fuss about it, so he learns that it is not going to get your attention.

How long do you leave him for before going in? I think if he is getting upset to the point where he vomits then I would probably go in a little sooner. I don't like CIO either, so I used BW methods - are you familiar with these? For toddlers you can use PD, GW or WI/WO. I would say Walk In /Walk Out might be your best approach. You put him down & go out of the room. If he gets distressed you go in, calm him, then go right back out. And repeat, until he goes to sleep.

Also IIWM I would really try & aim for doing the nap in the cot. I think this is key, esp if you are going for the 1 nap. He needs it to be long & restorative, & if you can get him down in there he is likely to sleep for longer than in the pushchair. I think if you are consistent in your approach, he will eventually get the message that you are not going to lift him back out.

HTH.x

Well that was a day! He woke at 3.30am, needed calpol by 4, settled himself off by 4.30, woke again at 6.
The doctors took FOR EVER so we weren't home until 12. Did half his lunch, put him down after a long-ish wind down. He was asleep by 12.45 and slept for 1 hr 30!
He was super tired this evening so put him down just after 6.30.

However he is teething, coughing and is bunged up, so it looks like all bets are off and it's sleep when you like till he's better. Can't say I'm not a bit relieved. I'm just not cut out for this...

Just wanted to thank everyone for the fabulous support, it really has meant so much to know that there's someone out there in the void who is prepared to help.
I'll be back when we pick up again.

xx