Tips on coping with long-term sleep deprivation

[AngelDog]

Care to share yours?

2 y.o. DS is currently waking 2-5 times a night, which he has done for the last 6 months. He's been a rubbish sleeper most of his life before that.

I'm finding the tiredness increasingly difficult to deal with and I end up shouting / crying most days. I used to find it much easier to cope with lack of sleep, even when he slept much worse than he does now. I don't know if that's cumulative sleep deprivation, or just that it's harder work looking after a toddler than it is a baby (although DS is not as demanding as many).

We co-sleep so I don't have to get out of bed when he wakes and he usually goes off again quite quickly. I try to go to bed early, but he needs less sleep than the average, so he goes to bed at about 9pm which makes it difficult for me to go to bed early enough. I could shorten his lunchtime nap, but I'm reluctant to do so for a number of reasons.

I always have a lie-down at lunchtime, although unless I've gone to bed really late, I find it difficult to go to sleep.

I don't drink caffeine, and get out of the house for a walk at least once every day. I eat fruit & veg and try not to binge on sugar too much.

I don't think I have depression (I've had mild depression in the past). I do feel depressed on days following particularly bad nights but if I get a better amount of sleep I feel much better.

The GP has checked my iron levels, thyroid and a few other things which all seem to be normal. My energy levels did improve when I discovered I had an intolerance to dairy last year but AFAIK I don't have any other food intolerances / allergies.

DS is currently working on a developmental leap so trying to get him to go to sleep better / stay asleep isn't working right now.

DH is insanely busy until Easter and until then has no capacity to help me out around the house, or with DS, either at night or in the day. (That's not something I feel resentful about - it's a decision about work that we made together and I still think we made the right choice). We don't have family close by and when they do visit, they're not much practical use.

We'd like to TTC but there's no way I could cope with pregnancy exhaustion too.

Any good coping tips?

Maybe it's time to move to his own room. I was co-sleeping with DS 16mo and he'd wake up every bloody hour so at the end of my tether I've put him in his own bed. Wakes up once a night now 17mo. It was surprisingly easy actually.

I just assumed that sleeping with mummy would help him sleep better but I was wrong.

I don't think I ever cope. I'm awful.

Actually going back to work made it easier!

Maybe you need a long term plan to tackle the sleep. You can't go on like this forever (and won't obviously) but when do you think it'll end?

Are you sure that he's getting enough sleep? I only say this because ds goes through phases of not settling, waking at night etc and I fall into the trap of thinking he needs less sleep. Then I get stubborn, keep up his naps and early bedtimes and he reverts back to good habits. Worth thinking about.

Yes, I often wonder about whether he gets enough sleep but then we have long phases of taking AGES to settle at naptime and/or bedtime. I do try to err on the side of earlier rather than later for both. I'll have another go at trying to do bedtime earlier though. My disorganisation doesn't help matters there.

We probably do need a long term plan. I'm not sure what it should be though! I think I keep hoping things will improve on their own like they did before - we had a 'not bad' patch between 13 and 18 months, with 17-18 months being really good. I think I need to face up to the fact that it may not improve so easily on its own this time.

DS has been wanting to go to sleep a bit more independently sometimes - saying 'sleep' and wanting to lie on the bed and be patted rather than rocked or fed. It only happens occasionally though, and doesn't seem to affect the number of wakings that night, which are pretty random anway.

We tried stopping co-sleeping recently but it was hideous. It didn't seem to make any difference to his waking but I was awake for at least an hour every time he woke, even if he was back off again with in 2 minutes. I'd forgotten that I'd had insomnia after night feeds until we started co-sleeping at 4 months.

I don't really understand why I find it so much harder to cope than I did in the past when he slept far worse. I used to be able to manage on 4 hours' sleep whereas now coping on 7 is a real struggle. I feel like I've run out of adrenalin. It's worse right now as both he and I have had colds so are tired from him being awake coughing up the contents of his lungs, but it's a longer-standing problem than that.

Thanks for the replies. I'm off to bed!

Gracie, just a thought - how long did it take after putting him in his own room when you saw an improvement? Was it straight away?

Every hour - oof. DS has never been quite that bad (illness aside) thankfully.

You need to go to bed earlier!

I'm not surprised you're struggling. It's been such a long time plus your DS takes more energy in the day compared to a baby.

I know what you mean about insomnia - I'm getting it now with DD. If dh takes her to let me nap I just lie there. Same with ds - it took a long time for me to be able to sleep properly again.

Your DS might struggle with earlier bedtime for a similar reason - being overtired. We find we have to really physically run DS about (ie to the park for at least an hour of non stop running/walking) to break the cycle.

Also moving to a room - again it might take a while to make the change, but once he's used to it it'll be great. DS took weeks to get used to a bed - we coped by sleeping in his room - but now he happily gets in and we dont find him curled up on his chair at 3am. Yesterday after we'd been to the park, he got into bed for a 20 min nap before lunch

I know, I know I think he'd just wake up and want to have a snuggle/ breast even although he wasn't really hungry.

Yes we saw an improvement straight away, I think in a way he was ready, if I'd of put him in the cot a couple of months ago he'd of howled with impotent rage (I know because I tried) however this time a few plaintive wails and silence by the time I was downstairs. It's quite hard work not snuggling down with him when he wakes at two though but I'm persevering.

Yes, I do need to go to bed earlier!

I'm pretty sure he's not overtired although he may well be slightly sleep deprived - he's been sleeping through my alarm whereas when things are better he wakes on his own.

Once he wakes he's always been reset to 'awake' for a certain number of hours. After a 1.5 hour nap he gets sleepy again after 6 hours - although it had been stretching to 6.5 hours, which meant a bedtime pushing towards 9pm (he naps at about about 12.45 after waking for the day at 7am).

I've rarely found that exercise makes much difference. We do go out every day, but he's not a very rushing-around type child (neither DH nor I were apparently) and it's been hard to convince him to do much in the way of running or higher-impact activity.

Mind you, the best night we had recently was after he'd done over 2 hours' walking during the day, and then had got utterly hysterical at bedtime because I'd gone out and DH was putting him to bed. I don't know if it was the exercise or the crying that wore him out!

I'm not sure he's eating well enough to sleep well either. He's having a very fussy phase. Last night he ate plain rice and then some fruit cocktail (he didn't want the protein/veg). Tonight all he ate was some baked beans and a satsuma (and he didn't even have a bedtime bf as I was out).

Is he under the weather?

Silly question - but how do you know he's tired? Do you put him to bed once he shoes sleepy signs? I only ask because HSHHC says that is too late.

Oh yes and we've worn DS out by walking about shopping - we didn't think much of it but realises he'd been on his feet for two hours pottering through shops so no wonder he was exhausted!

Hi Angel

You and I birthed the same son (at around the same time) whenever there is a thread I could have written it is you . I don't have any suggestions but understand completely.

DS is a terrible sleeper. We co-sleep too, partly as he does start off in his own room. But comes in with us when when he wakes after we have gone to bed. We have an insanely early bedtime (9pm) as he tends to be awake for the day around 5am. I thought briefly that things were improving but after a couple of weeks of 6-6:30 wake ups we are back to 4:30-5

Not co-sleeping doesn't work for us.

Can I just ask what his development is like? Just wondering as DS is bang on all his milestones except speech.

Hi AngelDog. I sympathise too. DS is 16 mo and usually wakes once or twice a night. If he does sleep through, he wakes at 5:30am

Still doesn't settle himself at bedtime - I feed him to sleep and feed him back to sleep when he wakes at night

I think he's teething or going through another sodding Wonder Week or something.

He used to wake every 1-2 hours (from four months to eight months) so he's much better than he was, but I'm still constantly shattered. I almost feel worse if he's slept through - sort of groggy.

If he's been up a lot I find it easier on the days I go to work because I'm distracted. If I'm at home with DS I feel more exhausted. I had depression too when he was younger, and those feelings come back when I'm tired.

He sleeps much better the nights after he's been to the CM. I think playing with the other kids tires him out more. We took him to the park yeaterday for a good old toddle and a go on the swings and he managed 8pm to 5:30am so might try and do that more.

Not a massively useful post. Just wanted to let you know you're not alone. That constant feeling of being slightly under par is awful. My friends' babies are all sleeping through, too

My god, you have my son! My ds is 14mo, still co-sleeps and wakes several times a night. He also has that sleep need-resetting thing whereby he WON'T go to sleep unless he has been awake for a minimum number of hours beforehand.

A few weeks ago he fell asleep in a friend's car at about 5. She has a dd the same age and couldn't believe it when I said that I now wouldn't be able to get him down before 10pm. But guess what, I couldn't.

No answers I'm afraid, although I can help with why you're suffering more now. It's the deprivation of good quality REM sleep - this takes a while to kick in (so you're probably woken up before it can) and the effects take a while to show.

If your husband (or other kindly relative) could give you a solid chunk of a few hours sleep, enough that you have a few dreams, that would probably make all the difference. Although, I know that I tolerate being woken a lot less than I used to - partly because of the cumulative effects and partly because it takes me back to that awful, dark time of being up all night with a screaming baby in the dark, cold, long and very lonely nights when he was first born.

You sound like me! But I don't have time to read properly now, will try later!

Hey Count! hope all is well

After a night of hell last night with two children to deal with, I officially declare that there is no real way of dealing with lack of sleep. I def agree that being at work is easier as you can hide in the first aid room and sleep just zone out at your desk.

Hello! So many familiar names. We always seem to turn up on the same sleep threads.

My coping strategy is trying to find that zen like place of acceptance that this will pass and I just have to get through today. Not ideal, to say the least. I have an added issue that 17month old DD has hypermobility and does not even crawl, let alone walk or run, so there is no tiring her out. She is waking 2 hourly at the moment from 8.30 to 8.30 and it is killing me even though we cosleep.

No help but mucho sympathy to you all.

Join if it any consolation (it probably won't be) nothing, absolutely nothing makes any difference to the quality if DS's sleep. Not eating well/little, early/late, exercise or no excercise.

What does make a difference is if he has a late nap, then he is impossible to get to bed.

Hello everyone. It's nice to have solidarity even if not nice to have so many other non-sleepers around.

I'm feeling better again today - I managed a nap too. DS was up for at least 2 hours in the night again. He's behaving differently from usual then - not overly interested in bf, and lying there quietly for ages apparently asleep, until I try to go to the loo when I hear a worried little voice saying, 'Mummy...'

MBJ, AFAIK DS is normal in terms of all developmental milestones, including speech. The only thing where he's noticeably different from most children I know is having bad separation anxiety/fear of other adults & children, especially when working on developmental stuff. It's fairly bad at the moment which is why I think he's working on a developmental leap (well, that and the rubbish sleep and him wanting to bf loads).

Gincognito, I think you're right about the REM sleep thing. As far as I can remember, I'm not dreaming much at the moment. The last stretch of the night is usually good sleep if DS has been up for a long while, so that cloud has a silver lining.

Count, yes, there's a Wonder Week somewhere between 15 and 17 months IIRC. The only worse thing than them is not knowing when the developmental stuff is happening and having to guess by daytime behaviour.

The worst thing here is that feeding to sleep often doesn't work now. It goes in phases - a few weeks ago I had to rock him all the time but thankfully now he'll go back to sleep after a bf more often than not.

JointheDots, it's tricky trying to find that place of zen, isn't it? When DS was little it was much easier. I assumed that no-one expected me to do anything as I had a small child and we just stumbled along in survival mode. Now even the other appallingly-sleeping babies are much better and it's hard to feel that survival mode is a sustainable long-term option. There are so many things that need doing at home and it's hard not to be able to do any of them!

Iggly, he hardly ever shows any tired signs so we just work by the length of time he's been awake.

The only time tired signs are reliable is if he drops off and then wakes up immediately - then exactly 1.5 hours later he'll yawn and fuss, at which point he will go to sleep again. If you miss that window by 5 or 10 minutes he'll be up for another 1.5 hours. Night times have usually been the same if he's Wide Awake rather than just waking between sleep cycles (although he used to be able to get himself back off again).

He does occasionally yawn sooner than that and I have tried getting him to sleep then, but he's never actually gone off sooner.

If he's gone to bed late, he'll usually want to nap 15 mins earlier for every hour late to bed. But if he's been awake in the middle of the night it doesn't normally push naptime any earlier, although I do try.

He could be a bit under the weather - he's got the last end of a cold (as have I) but he's got a few spots appeared today and his eczema is flaring a bit again.

He's got all his teeth but is STILL gnawing on things and dribbling even though the last one came through at least 3 months ago. Gnawing on his hands is because of the eczema there, but he still chews on other things too.

Actually, I have a good tip of my own which has helped me: reduce your internet usage so that going to bed early is a feasible option. It only worked for us because our equipment got damaged and took BT a fortnight to repair. I'm doing my best to stay off MN as much as possible now we're back online.

My DS also has terrible separation/strange anxiety.

Interestingly, DS didn't nap yesterday and was awake for 1.5 hours from midnight - you'd think he'd sleep through! he just lay there not saying much, just flopping about asking for me/covers etc.

Have you considered giving him melatonin? A couple of mums I know with tricky sleepers have used it and it's worked brilliantly.

My ds has pretty bad separation anxiety and no speech yet :(

Interesting - I wonder if there's a connection?

FWIW, I think DS's speech is pretty good. It's not as distinct as some others his age, and he doesn't use full sentences as much as others his age, but he has a very wide vocabulary which he developed from about 15 months and he used to be ahead of most others his age, although the rate of progress is slowing relative to his peers now. (I think at 14 m.o. he only had about 2 words, Gincognito, so I wouldn't worry too much).

Gracie, sorry, I missed your reply - thanks. That suggests to me that DS isn't at the stage of readiness that your DS was anyway.

I've heard about melatonin, Africagirl1, although IIRC it's not advised unless under medical supervision. I suspect something like that wouldn't help DS because his sleep patterns are random. That is, we'll have a phase of waking several times a night, then a phase of a few wakings, then a phase of being up for a couple of hours most nights, then a phase of not bf'ing back to sleep, then another phase of bf'ing working again - and so on. That suggests to me that it probably isn't one thing which is causing the problem.

We did have a month and a half of really good sleep but that was 6 months ago.

Actually, this thread has been good as I've remembered one piece of progress. DS always used to wake at around my bedtime - it was a purely habitual waking which started when I'd disturb him by getting into bed. He doesn't do routinely do that now, so that's something.

He's been sleeping closer to me than usual lately - normally he likes his space (he has a single mattress on the floor next to mine). I wonder if that's something to do with the peak in separation anxiety at the moment?

Iggly - that sounds like classic HSHHC stuff. I think it's the high levels of cortisol (stress hormone) when they don't nap that makes them produce adrenaline which then wakes them up at night.

It is interesting IMO - just not when it's happening to your child.

His naps are back on - and he slept last night with a wake up at half 1 as he'd kicked his covers off poor thing is still catching up - fell asleep in the pushchair home this morning which was rare! Although his new footmuff is super cosy so maybe that did the trick.