11 month old resillient to sleep training. HELP!!

[annaspanna]

My DS will not sleep through. He Has slept through less than 10 times in his life. He was breastfed until 4 months which is when i stopped the one night feed he was having. He continued to wake once a night for the next month.
i tried controlled crying at 6 months which miraculously worked for 9 whole days!!
Unfortunately this didn't last and began waking more & more in the night until i have reached the point now where i am under HV writing down his wakings which on average are 9 times a night.i tried controlled crying at beginning of December but 1st night 2hrs 2nd 3 hrs & 3rd 4 hrs crying i gave up and swore i'd never put us all thro that again!!!
He has been in his own room in his cot from 6 weeks. I don't put on the light or pick him up. He asks to go to bed by pulling the stairgate at around 6.30 every evening. Goes to sleep by himself not rocked or fed to sleep. HE has not had milk in the night since 4 months & definately is not waking from hunger. he does not use a dummy. I have always maintained a good eat/sleep routine in the day. I truly have done everything the health visitor has recommended from day one. Joe is a very active and intelligent child. HV says his developmental age is above 18months & this has to be taken into consideration. But all i want to know is why he wakes up so much. I'm starting to think its an allergy or something. i feel so alone. Everyone i tell looks down on me as though i'm doing something wrong or they have poor advise. i do feel like a failure. Sorry to be such a bore. I'm off sick from work today and have slept all morning but still feel wretched. Does anyone else out there feel anything like me?? Have tried virtually everything but still can't get a stretch of 4 hrs sleep?

No advice I am afraid, I am having probs with dd2 at the moment, hit and miss with her, she will sleep through and then give me 3 crappy nights.

Hence why I am about to go home early today (been up since 4am).

Hopefully someone else will be on to help soon.

Bump.

xx

Anna - have you read the Elizabeth Pantley book ?
I have not but some have said she has intersting stuff in it....
I can only offer sympathy as you seem to be doing things right!
Just a Q - when you say: 1st night 2hrs 2nd 3 hrs & 3rd 4 hrs crying

I presume you went back to him and settled him and then he would cry again?

My top tip is NEVER EVER discuss your child's sleeping with anyone. ESPECIALLY Health Visitors.

At 11 months my daughter was waking up to 21 times a night . I have a record of it somewhere. By 18 months she was sleeping a lot better.

Some babies don't sleep well and there might not be a magic solution. I would just try and find ways of coping - do alternative nights with your DH (if you have one). Bring him into your bed if that helps, or give him a single bed and share it with him on bad nights.

Just my opinion, there will be others!

Yes pupuse I read the elizabeth Pantley Book this time last month. Unfortunately of no help in my situation as it is to help people who have ingrained sleep associations like bed sharing and bf to sleep.i was already doing a lot of what she suggests. She recommends 6 stages and I'm already on stage 5. Aiming for stage 6 which is to comfort from outside the door. I was a big fan of Tracey Hogg when he was first born. She really helped me understand sleep and routine but she has no suggestion relevant to my current prob. There's no pattern so can't do "wake to sleep".

Hope you get a better night oliveoil. sleep deprivation is a killer when your working.

Hi Anna,
I have a non sleeper too1
She is 17 months old, I really don't think she has ever properly slept through.
Similar to you, she goes to sleep on her own, like a dream, then wakes any number of times through the night. only difference is that she has a dummy. but she doesn't even want that most of the time.
fortunately she is quiye easy to settle back down, and she doesn't usually fully wake up.

Last night was th worst yet: DD1 has a cough so she was up a fair bit, though normally she goes 12 hrs straight. Then we went to bed at 10pm, and that was it. DD2 woke up every 20 mins or so until 1am, then we got a couple of hrs slepp, until DD1 woke up and then all up for the day at 6.30am. reckeon I might have had 4 hrs!

So, yes, i know how you feel. We have tried pretty much everuything. And it is the pits when you are sleep deprived.

I now have to think that she just isn't a good sleeper. She is a fantastic eater, very sociable etc, just doesn't sleep that well.

just wanted to add sympathy really and to say don't forget all childhood is a phase and it won't be forever that you get no sleep!

We didn't have this level of waking but we have certainly had our struggles, the key for us was my husband taking over bedtimes completely. He does stories, puts ds to bed, then in the night it was ALWAYS my husband who went in. we found our Ds was less clingy with him and obviously found it not worth all the hassle of screaming and crying just to get dad in! No offence intended to dad of course but I just think if it's about having mum then this might help. It's also a way of breaking the habit (which HAS to be part of the problem) by presenting him with a totally different outcome - but he's not left to cry, he still gets a loving parent.

It only took about a week of our new arrangment and our ds now sleeps 6.30 - 6amish. (so no excuse for partner/husband not to try it, as it's not meant to be forever, just a strategy to try to stop it happening!)

I know every one is different but just wanted to say what had worked for us.

Well morningpaper,Do i get the impression you have no time for Health visitors? To be honest i didn't know where else to turn and asked for help at sleep clinic but she insisted on being my saviour. i'm certainly not alone with amount of wakings then cus my ds has been up over 20 times a night too. Horrific when you've got a full days work ahead.

i realise there's probably is no magic answer although i live in hope i might find it.

it's really good to hear i'm not the only person who's child wakes every 10-20 mins littlerach. This is the most frustrating thing. i can cope with A solid one hour wake up, but when you settle him & yourself back down for sleep then every twenty mins for 2 an half hours is torture.

i would like to try the dad settling baby technique beasmum - thanx. At the moment he has a driving job and i really don't want him long distance driving whilst tired. We tried the controlled crying during a week off we had from work. It was devastating when it didn't work. He did settle himself nights 1&2. not night 3 tho i picked him up in the end.

hmmm. I know he has to be safe to drive but then so do you to look after a child safely....and if he's waking anyway when the child wakes, there's not much difference between coming to and hearing baby, and going in to briefly settle the baby. This worked so quickly for us that my husband couldn't moan about being more tired, as we were all sleeping through within the week!

Good luck, hope it works!

Anna- how interesting that he didn't get better on night 3... most specialists I have heard on this say that night 3 is the worst. If you can beat that one, night 4 is usually better/cracked.
The problem is that if you give in once - with some kids - you make it MUCH harder afterwards!

I agree about the dad technique. Definitely worth having a go when he is back at home.

I presume you have seen Super nanny? She has tackled very poor sleepers before.

What a really stressful situation you are in... and to be fair to you - the more tired you are the harder it is to solve it as you are too tired and involved. I have had one mum like you (I work as a postnatal doula) and she had Tracey Hogg help her (she is on her tele programme) but her DS got "bad" again.... and she was convinced she was quite firm and consistent but she so wasn't.... unfortuantely I am not Super Nanny and would never really tell her as I saw it as she had a newborn and could not take it, she was very tearful... so I was there every mornings at 8AM and she slept whilst I played with her toddler and she was aiming for 3 hours unbroken sleep. The baby was a far better sleeper.

Poor U annaspanna. I really really feel for you. My DD was the same. She didn't sleep thro til she was nearly 3 years old (you probably didn't want to hear that!) and we tried EVERYTHING and like you we were doing all the 'right things'. She was our 2nd baby and had done CC very successfully with our 1st. But she just wouldn't sleep. She didn't sleep much in the day either. She is now nearly 6 and is still not a brilliant sleeper. Until recently she would wake up some nights at 3 am asking if its time to get up yet, or she will wake me to discuss the next days outing etc etc. But at 6 she has now learnt that unless she is ill she does not wake me up!!!!

We have just come to the conclusion (as did my HV at the time), some kids just don't need alot of sleep. I blame my DH. He doesn't sleep much either!!

So anyway, sorry, have no helpful tips, just that you are not alone and I really feel for you.

Thanx guys. I feel better already knowing people understand.

i agree- poppiesinaline- that i probably should accept i have a poor sleeper. My mom (died when i was a teenager so cant get her advise now)would tell me how i never slept thro til i was two!! I was a second child too and apparently my older sister was an angel baby so my parents knew their behaviour didn't influence my sleeping. My DS is just like i was as a baby so what do i expect?

actually i haven't watched many supernanny shows where she deals with sleep at this age pupuce? What a fantastic job you have and a whole world of experience!! Have you thought of writing a book??

Tipex - i tried PUPD for over a month after a bout of illness & teethin etc. I think this is possibly the cause of so many wakings now.I think he may be confused by it. But I'm always guessing and clutching at straws as to what has caused it. don't suppose i'll ever know.

Thanx guys. I feel better already knowing people understand.

i agree- poppiesinaline- that i probably should accept i have a poor sleeper. My mom (died when i was a teenager so cant get her advise now)would tell me how i never slept thro til i was two!! I was a second child too and apparently my older sister was an angel baby so my parents knew their behaviour didn't influence my sleeping. My DS is just like i was as a baby so what do i expect?

actually i haven't watched many supernanny shows where she deals with sleep at this age pupuce? What a fantastic job you have and a whole world of experience!! Have you thought of writing a book??

Tipex - i tried PUPD for over a month after a bout of illness & teethin etc. I think this is possibly the cause of so many wakings now.I think he may be confused by it. But I'm always guessing and clutching at straws as to what has caused it. don't suppose i'll ever know.

Oh - pupuce - i didn't realise the CC gets better on night 4. After it worked well the first time i think i expected the same again.

Oh - pupuce - i didn't realise the CC gets better on night 4. After it worked well the first time i think i expected the same again.

Oh - pupuce - i didn't realise the CC gets better on night 4. After it worked well the first time i think i expected the same again.

Maybe CC would be worth another try (if you can face it ). If it doesn't work after one week then its probably not going to work.

what do you do to settle your lo when he wakes?

I know you say you have used PU/PD before but at your lo's age you would modify it to just doing the put down part (I assume he stands up when he wakes).

Controlled crying doesnt work for every baby and can make them clingier and less assured that you will be there for them.

you're right in everything you say anniemac. I've heard a few peole say clever kids never sleep as babies. And i can honestly say i have done everything that experts advise to prevent sleep problems. Friends with babies the same age have not done anything to help & aid their babies sleeping and yet all have slept thro since 2 months or earlier. So you're right i think it is luck of the draw. And i know that i may look back with hindsight at what i could or should have done. I really would like DS to have a sibling but i'm afraid of having another poor sleeper. Double trouble

Age may play a part you're right. I hoped & prayed my friend would be right when she said they'll sleep when they walk. Get em out walking. He's been walking since 8 months and runs these days but it doesn't seem to help his sleep. More exercize seems to upset his sleep sometimes - paradoxically!!

Seona1973 -i used PUPD when DS was ill with various illnesses from 6 months to 8 months i think? He was standing in his cot from 6 months or so and I did not actually pick him up because tracey said they are actually doing the "pick-up" bit themselves by standing. I would carefully cradle him in the cot and lay him down without bringing him to my chest- if you understand me.

These days HV has advised i should go in & say lie down & go to sleep firmly. If he doesn't lie down i do it for him. Before this advise(given 3 wks ago) i was nicely & sweetly saying "night night, time to go to sleep" and tucking him in I had been doing this for a few months.

i can't face cc yet. I did say never again at the time. But i'll see. It really upset me so much last time and Joe. I think he's still getting over it.

How did you do the CC last time?

Hi Anna,
I have recently tackled sleeping issues with my DS. I did CC with My first but just couldn't do it again (too tired to go in every 10 min, and too soft to just let him cry). I was still at the point where I wasn't sure if he was waking for hunger or confort, so I had to work up to that y going to him and giving him water until I was sure he could go the whole night without milk. In the case of my DS picking him up does not confort him, and as you I have tried everything else. In my perspective that wasn't anything I could actually do, but I just couldn't keep getting up. My compromise solution was to sleep in his room for a few night where he could see I was there (i.e. he wasn't abandoned) and I could say shush, every now and then without actually having to get up IYSWIM. It took a few nights but he slowly got better at going to sleep on his own. We are not quite there yet, but most of the nights he goes until 4:30, so I am back in my lovely bed!
You may also consider co-sleeping. I know it would feel as many steps backwards, but at least you can recharge your batteries. After all, they will eventually grow out of it.

Hope you sort something out!

lua - I's afraid co-sleeping is definately not for either me, DH or DS . I swore I'd never have a baby in the bed - until i had a baby I have on desperate occasion tried to put him in with us but he wriggles and protests so much until i put him back in his cot!! Such a stubborn & independant one - DH would say just like his mom!!
Madmarchhare I did CC when 5 months & rigidly watched the clock doing 2, 5 10 & 15 min intervals. When i went in i ......do you know i can't remember exactly what i did??? But i'm sure it would have been very clinical and not to seem as though i was rescuing him. It worked in 3 days. just over an hour first night i think then 45 mins second & a few mins the 3rd until blissful 9 straight nights sleep through!! If I'd known what i know now I'd have certainly appreciated them more

madmarchhare - OH - and the recent CC a month ago we did the same thing - going in after 2 5 10 15 mins but it didn't work. took 2 hrs first night which i expected 3 hrs second and after 4 hours the 3rd i gave in. But reliable advise from pupuce informs me if I'd gone one more night i may have cracked it.