What is the best AP approach to a 4.9ds who's decided he hates bed?

[phdlife]

He still naps most days, at least an hour, and he absolutely cannot cope more than two days running without it. And he has always taken an elaborate ritual to get to sleep, which I've mostly gone along with because it was just so obvious that he couldn't cope with anything else.

But now he seems to have tacked on to tail-end of the ritual an escalating complaint that he can't sleep, hates bed, is bored, does it twice a day and it takes a long time and (cue tears) he's going to have to do it forever (honestly - I had to keep a straight face through all this!)

I have tried saying "okay, then you can stay in your room and read some books, when you're ready for bed I'll come back", but he won't have that - has to follow me out. He's at home with me and dd and we do lots together (today sewing, stories, drawing) so it's not like he is deprived on that front. (Although that's not to say, of course, that he doesn't want still more - he is a sponge who wishes never to be anywhere without me!)

He's a sensitive, strongly-attached kid; he is pig-headed; he is emotionally quite immature yet; I want to get him to go to bed without a fight. I'm toying with the idea of just letting him stay up, see how boring we adults are and gradually figuring out himself that he really does need the sleep.

The thing is, I look after small children for 14-15hrs a day and up to 4x a night and goddammit, I WANT SOME NON-CHILD TIME BEFORE I PASS OUT GO TO BED. If that attempt backfires, I'd really be in big trouble. Thoughts?

He needs to drop his nap if you want him to sleep in the evening. Are you home educating? I am surprised that he is still having a nap at 4.9 years old. My dd dropped her nap at 2 and half and many children stop napping in the day far earlier than that. In countries where people do nap in the afternoon they allow children to stay up far later. Admitally its easier when you have the extended family to help amuse the child.

I think the key is a good wind down routine. Does your son still co sleep. It may well be that he is used to having you beside him and needs to be gently weaned from that. Prehaps a toddler bed beside your bed.

I read my children some bed time stories. Prehaps get him to listen to some audio books in his room as he lies in bed. Going to bed needs to be a pleasent experience. I sit in the doorway and read my kindle when my lo goes to bed. She listens to the audio book provided she stays in the bed.

Reallytired I know most of the other kids have dropped their naps but as I've said he can really only cope a day or two without. Then it all gets tearful and shouty and hitty. I can't really get him to bed early enough to preclude that, as it can start at 7am if he's tired enough.

This week for instance he missed a nap on Thu and Fri, slept 2hrs on Sat, played hard and went to bed at 8:30 Sat night, missed a nap on Sun (went swimming 2x and had visitors, so a big day) and was hysterical from the minute he woke up this morning. Then slept 1.25hrs and was peachy all afternoon. Probably I should have made him get some physical exercise in the afternoon but it was pissing down.

I've only had mixed success getting him to have 'quiet time', either.

I'm not too worried about his wind-down, except that lately he goes through all the steps then suddenly winds himself up!

well I've been letting him skip daytime naps and set own bedtime for past 2 days.

he's been ok so far though he looks terrible. we are home today so hopefully he will nap. The issue is not about his tiredness, it's that he's got a bee in his bonnet that sleep is a boring old waste of time.

I think you need to get through the pain barrier of skipping the naps. Lots of kids think that sleep is a boring waste of time. Your son sleeps more than my children.

DD aged two gets up at 7am and is usually asleep between 7pm and 8pm. She does nap occassionally and on those days she falls asleep between 8pm and 9pm/.

DS aged 10 gets up at 7am and goes to sleep 9.30pm.

I think you are making a mistake not setting a bed time. The human body (including adults and children) responds well to a bed time routine at regular time of day. A five year old needs between 10 to 12 hours a day.

www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/childrensleep.htm

You need to make a pleasent wind down routine to wind him down. Say if you want him to go to bed at seven, give him a bath at 6pm stories at 6.30pm. Cuddle at 6.55pm. Lights out with calming music or an audio CD at 7pm. He may well fall asleep at 8 but he is occupied and out of your hair.

DS also 4 yro was fascinated with the sleep android thingy on DP's ph so we uploaded it to the i-pod.
You set two alarms one for time for bed and the other is the wake up alarm it is put on the bed and records movement on a graph, we go in and pick it up when ever we check on the DC and shake it just before we go to bed. There are some high peaks on the graph esp as DC move around a lot and we say wow what adventures did you have last night while you were asleep and he tells us some wonderful stories. No more boring sleeps in this house.

DD is 4.7 and normally she goes to bed about 7.30 and goes straight to sleep and is up about 7ish.

But if she has a sleep during the day she will be pottering about in her bedroom till 10 or 11pm, but then be vile the next day.

Consequently we don't let her nap and if she falls asleep we tend to wake her after 5 mins or so.

I agree 100% with what reallytired says - he's got into a routine where he won't go to bed till late, so he needs a nap the next day or his behaviour deteriorates. And then of course he's not tired at bed time. OF COURSE sleep is boring if you're not tired!

You need to stop the nap and sort out his bed time routine and stick to it so he knows what to expect.

I would put up with a horrible child for a few days while dropping the nap and setting a bedtime routine