6 month with horrendous sleep problem

[larlylou]

I've tried writing my message three times now and each time it just goes on and on so I apologise in advance for its length! I have a 6 month who is just the worst sleeper in the world and it is really dragging me down. I have a 2.9 year old who is superb so I have been spoilt and thought that she would just be like her brother...not the case. Three nights ago was the first and only night she has gone from 7pm and 7am and that was the night we decided to stop the use of a dummy (it has become a hindrance...on our hands and knees continually throughout the night scraping around for a piece of bloody plastic). She has a good night time routine which I've been doing with her since a week old - she has her bath, milk, story and in bed by 7pm. She settles well, sometimes needs a pat but generally asleep within 5-10 minutes. Throughout the night she will constantly wake crying (no build up...straight in to a full-on cry). We will leave her for 5-10 minutes to see if she will settle and occasionally she does but generally we will go up to her and once we are by her and sshhhhh or touch her she is reassured and will go back to sleep, move away from her or lift your hand off and the screaming starts. We are aware that its our company that she wants and she also relys on her dummy as she is extremely sucky. Sometimes giving her a dummy will rectify it for a period, other times you can't leave her side for ages. However, if we bring her into bed with us she is asleep, contently, in seconds. She wakes up every night at 8.30pm and between 10-11pm then 2ish, 4ish, 5.30ish (sometimes more, sometimes less - never the same but is getting worse). Sometimes if she wakes between 5.30-6am I will put her into bed with me just because I am too tired to get up with her due to such disturbed sleep. We have no qualms in leaving her to cry it out for a while and no longer worry about waking her brother up. She wiggles around the cot and gets in such a state sometimes when she is left that I tuck her into a folded cotton sheet to hold her down slightly otherwise she ends up twisting around and wedging herself.
She is also a terrible sleeper during the day too - never going longer than 20-45 minutes - rarely does she ever go longer and usually when in either a buggy or car (and hasn't done since a newborn). I try and make sure she has a few naps making her total hours of sleep to approx 3 hours (I do not think she is getting anywhere near good sleep during the day and is often rubbing her eyes when she wakes up) again, I have left her to try and settle back, gone and tried to pat her back but to no avail - once she's awake she's awake.
She does have eczema and pulls at her neck area which obviously is an irritant to her but I don't believe that could be the cause of her wakings. She suffered from terrible stomach pains whens she was little so we couldn't leave her to cry too long and had to do a lot of massage to ease her pain (not quite colicky as not regular timings but suffered from dreadful trapped wind and stomach pains). Has an intolerance to sugars so check her foods but don't think this is a problem either.
Any advice, suggestions, help would be so gratefully received as I just don't know what to do. I do not know if controlled crying is the answer and how do you do that when you semi rely on a dummy? Anyone experienced/experiencing anything like this? I'm ready to camp out in the garden for some sanity if I don't get this resolved soon. Thanks in advance!

My only advice would be:

Take her into bed with you and let her sleep with you for a while - it is obviously what she desperately needs at the moment, and it will mean that you will get some sleep too!!!!!!!!

Don't get worked up about "She'll never sleep in her own bed" kind of thing, she will!!! one day.
Let things calm down for a while and then in a couple of months you can look at the problem again.

The way you describe it NO WAY would I do cc.
I would keep up the bedtime routine and when she first wakes up in the night bring her in with you.

Thanks Emkana for your help. I always thought it would just make sleeping life much more simple if she was to sleep with us when needed but I have little voices in my head telling me its not the right thing to do, its naughty and its not safe (drummed in from both mother and mil too) so I always have a fear of it but - she loves it. Also, I worry because she is to share a bedroom with her brother and surely her being dependent on sleeping with us is going to make sharing that much harder. Tonight though, I think I will take your advice - just for a good nights sleep if anything! Thanks

Good for you. Sleep well and sweet dreams for all of you!

Bedsharing gets such a bad press, and I understand it's not for everyone, but sometimes it's just the best thing for a family IMO.
She's still sooooooo young, as I said before you have plenty of time to get her into the sleep routine you want - later!

You must be sooo tired. If you are happy to co-sleep I would go ahead with that for a couple of nights (I am sure you know all the things to do to minimise any potential risks associated with co-sleeping). If she sleeps better whilst co-sleeping at least you might be able to rule out the possibility of other factors disturbing her (eg hunger, tummy trouble, eczema, dummy,...) and get a better idea of whether it is purely a sleep problem. Secondly if you get some sleep you will be able to think more clearly about how you want to tackle this going forward.

MuddlingThru - I think the co-sleeping is looking much perkier and something that I shouldn't discourage. She hasn't been having a night time feed since about 3.5 months. I did used to wake her up for a 10.30pm feed for a couple of weeks but she wasn't bothered by it and was still waking up at 3ish eventually she didn't really drink much, slept past this time so I dropped the feed and have never fed her during the night since. She also drinks and now eats her breakfast a lot better whereas before if she was fed in the night (even at 10.30pm) she would have no more than 2oz of milk in the morning. I don't know if eczema is a cause and I do believe it is getting worse so I wonder if the introduction of dairy is the root of the problem worsening perhaps? Something to discuss with the dreaded HV this week! Thanks for your support. No stirrings yet but she was up with us for a little while during dinner tonight - all full of smiles so we realised that the teeth thing wasn't the problem and she was just pulling a fast one...we promptly 'marched her back to bed' so to speak. Once ER has ended I'm off to bed and no doubt will have a wee one next to me in no time!

Enjoy your sleep (fingers crossed) and snuggles.

The only thing about her co-sleeping with us is that she will get too attached to it (because its obviously something that she likes...more than being in her cot anyway) and so to break the habit we will eventually have to do controlled crying anyway? Oooh, she's just woken. Is it because she wakes up into a light sleep at this time and doesn't know how to settle herself back down. The use of a dummy was a prop and now it doesn't always do the trick? I am finding this whole sleep thing rather baffling.

Oh, I feel for you. We were in the exact situation almost up until Christmas. DS (2.4) was a bad sleeper, but then started to sleep through every night at around 3 mo. DD (almost 5 mo), OTOH, started out a pretty good sleeper, but deteriorated into waking up about 9X a night in a full on scream like you described, and would do a bit better in our bed, but I would kick DH out to the couch, because I couldn't sleep for fear of one of us rolling on her or her falling off the bed. She never slept more than about 3 20 min. naps a day, and we figured she only got about 8 hrs. sleep in a 24 hr. period. She had horrible stomach pains and wind. It turns out she was lactose intolerant and once we got her on soy formula, she turned into a completely different baby. I see you say you don't think that's the case, so I guess that isn't much help, but I just wanted to let you know that I understand totally where you're at right now, and I really sympathize. Sorry not much help, your post sounded exactly like where I was coming from last month and I couldn't let it alone.

candcmommy - I don't think I should wipe out lactose intolerant totally as my HV said when she was a few months old that she thought she could be sensitve to lactose. Since being on formula completely (4.5m) her eczema did get worse and now that she has had dairy introduced into her diet her eczema has flared up so I do think that could be a possibility but I didn't think it would disrupt her sleep. Now maybe I should look into this as it could be the problem (it is something I need to tackle anyway as I am constantly battling with her eczema at the moment - my Doctor just shrugs it off as a baby thing, some creams are crap its just finding the right one (he says!). I did try soya milk for a short period but she was worse (and Omneo Comfort) as it has glucose syrup and fructose in which worsened her stomach pains. Now I look back after reading your message, it has got worse as time has gone on as she was quite good when she was a little baby and being breastfed. Thanks for your help, it has made me look at it differently. When you changed her milk did her sleeping change naturally? How about naps?

Oh gosh, now that you have told me your story, the more I think about it, the more likely it probably is milk. It has got worse and worse (her sleeping) but, looking back, I am sure it got worse since she was being weaned which could mean dairy (I've been giving her Petit Filous). She did used to sleep from 7pm - 4.30-5am and that was on her Cow & Gate Organic so I'm not sure if she is intolerant necessarily as she slept OK but now, thinking about it, I do believe that I need to look into her diet as the core problem. Maybe she is relying on us as it has become a habit and she is a clingy baby who is showing signs of going through a bit of an anxiety moment (doesn't always like me leaving the room, not sure about being held by people and bursts into tears if a stranger speaks to her - not always but all connected I'm sure). Thanks for your help colinandcaitlinsmommy - it's made me look into something I should have done a while ago I think!

Every single thing you've said sounds like Caitlin. Even the clingy part and crying when strangers would talk to her. I showed this to DH, and he wants you to know how much he sympathizes too, and how much your DD sounds like Caitlin was. I know there's different levels of intolerance, and some babies can handle some amounts of lactose, but she's so bad I had to totally stop BFing her. She hit her lowest point when the dr. suggested we give her a small bit of yogurt (don't spell it with an 'h' here in America ) to help with the wind. Anyway, hope you sort something out, and soon. I know how the lack of sleep can wear away at your sanity. Will be looking out to see if things get any better.

Thanks for your support. I have just been reading on the allergy section and I didn't even realise that you shouldn't use fabric softener when they suffer eczema. I think I need to start educating myself to get some answers to help Ella with her sleep and eczema. Thank you so much for highligthing this to me otherwise I wouldn't have thought too deeply about it. I do worry though about soya products - I'm not too keen putting her on soya formula. I do wonder if her milk is causing her trouble also therefore I would have to swap it but I could certainly use goats milk instead of full fat milk in cooking her foods (which I've only recently been doing as she is only just 6 months). I will certainly be cutting the yogurts out of her diet to see if that helps. Time to go to bed before my head explodes. I am seeing my HV on Thursday so hopefully she will be able to help me out also. I will keep you updated of our progress. Thanks again.

Hi LL

Ooh, I really feel for you. As soon as I read your last post I just wanted to write and let you know that if your DD is lactose intolerant that there is a very high chance of her being allergic to Soya too. Two of my friends have discovered this with their babies, it's very common. You should definitely ask your Health Visitor about it. I'm pretty sure one of my friends got her baby's soya free formula on prescription but obviously you need to see if this is really what the problem is.

Good luck and I hope you are able to sort this out really soon.

Well, typically she wasn't as unsettled as the previous night but my ds was - he had a slight temperature so I was up to him most of the time and at 4ish I ended up putting Ella into bed with us and she slept soundly until 7.15am. I have bought goats milk for her already to make sauces up if needed and am going to find some either sheeps or goats natural yogurt to replace her dairy ones to see if that will help also. Nottsmum, I too have heard that and I have previously tried her on soya milk for a week or so but she reacted badly to it due to the glucose syrup and I don't feel comfortable her being on soya but I have heard about nannys milk (goats formula), expensive but worth a try - something I need to raise with my HV on Thursday. Its great having some support - it makes you see things differently sometimes too - thank you.

She woke tonight at 8.45pm, I went in to her to reassure her after about 5 minutes, gave her the dummy but she wasn't bothered by it - I'm tired tonight and haven't the patience for yet more night time crying so I checked she was tucked into her sheet (otherwise she spirals round and round the cot and wedges herself), went downstairs, turned off the monitor and did the washing up. By the time I had finished I listened at the bedroom door and she was fast asleep. Woke up again at 9.50pm so I left her for about 15 minutes...she was getting hoarse from crying and I needed to check on her, this time she took the dummy and she's settled down. Whether it is dairy/eczema or whatever, I do believe that she is in a habit of waking at those times otherwise she would be waking distressed at all times and not specifically 8.30-9 and 10-11pm - she relies on us as her comforter to get her back to sleep. I can't do it during the night but I am going to try and deal with it until I go to bed (which gets later and later each night as I don't enjoy it due to so many constant interruptions). Oh the joys..!

KVG - its a nightmare eh! We can sympathise with one another and if you find a solution, please let me know! How old is your dd? If my dd had her way she'd have our fingers in her mouth too (she grabs your hand and pulls it to her mouth lifting her head to try and get something in). It does work when we are out and about though so its reassuring when there are no dummies (I have to admit to being rather loathed toward dummies and still find myself explaining why she has some plastic yuk in her mouth but, it works for her so I suppose I have to eat (some of) my words! Good luck with tonight and hopefully the sleep fairy will sprinkle sleep dust over them and we get a good, much needed, nights sleep!

I'm in a similar situation to you larlylou. DD2 is 6 mths now and is so unpredictable with her waking at night its driving me insane. she also only sleeps for 30-45mins during the day (about 3 times) last night it was 12.30pm, 3.00am, 4.00am and then 6.00am.

although i've found a couple of patterns which seem to be having an effect. DD2 is bottle during the day but BF during the night. i do think she is teething so i've taken to giving her calpol at 7.00pm. her patterns seem to be

1. can only stay awake for 2 hrs since she last woke up
2. if she naps during 4-5pm (even for 30 mins), she goes down at 7.00pm much, much easier.
3. when she wakes crying, during the evening, i've found that if i go to her straight away, give her a cuddle and then shhing for 5 mins she settles again.
4. since giving her calpol at 7.00pm, she seems to sleep until 10pm and then we feed her at 11pm.

tonight i'm going to try not BF when she wakes in the night and see what happens. DD2 is also on 3 meals a day now.

i hope some of this helps. know that someone will definitely be up with you during the night. i'll keep my fingers crossed for you that you find something that works soon....

Morning KVG - poor you, it was a disturbed night. Luckily for me Ella was a lot better. I left her a couple of times earlier in the evening and then she woke again sometime during the night once (no recollection of time - I think I slept walk to put dummy in) she settled straight back and then woke at 6am. I chucked her into bed with us for the hour until up time but she just played with my hair and chatted for the duration so, like you, I will nap with her (such a good skill!) and have dummy at ready to see if she will go back for longer. Hope you have an OK day and you aren't feeling too knackered.

Thanks Blossom2. I have been giving her calpol on occassions also but it doesn't make much difference to her sleep pattern, it just reassures me that I'm not leaving her to suffer in pain if I let her cry it out a bit. There is nothing at all predictable about Ella - when you think you've cracked it, the next night is the complete opposite. She had no dairy yesterday so I don't know if that made any difference. Hope you had a better night last night Blossom.

larlylou - What is dd's daytime routine?

Sadey - I don't have a strict routine with her like I did her brother (he settled in really well to ... dare I name her.. Gina!). I have found it very hard to get her to nap in teh dark in her bed at certain times because I am running around taking my son to preschool, nursery, activities, etc. Generally, she gets up around 7ish has breakfast then 2-2.5 hours later she will have a nap (if at home in her cot, if out in buggy or car or my arms). Then lunch at 11.30am followed by another nap at about 12.30pm again, wherever I am, she has a bottle of milk at 2.30pm then she will have another nap followed by dinner at 5pm, bath at 6pm, massage, bottle, story and in bed by 7pm. Because she doesn't nap for very long I will try and get another nap in somewhere during the day, especially if she had a bad night. Thing is, she is just catching up on lost/disturbed sleep and not having 'extra' sleep that her naps should be providing.

Another bad night. Was stirring last night from 7.30pm continually until I ended up going to bed and putting her in with me at 11pm. She then slept until 6.40pm with only one waking but no tears she just put herself back to sleep. I am beginning to think it is purely a comfort thing. If it was dairy she would be disturbed wherever she sleep surely?

Well I guess it is good that it looks like you have narrowed down what is causing the waking. But with an answer comes the next set of questions: do you continue co-sleeping, do you sleep train, what sort of sleep training... aaah the joys of being a parent.