4 month old waking up all night...Are Jo Tantum's methods worth investigating?

[OovoofWelcome]

Hi,

I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions about our gorgeous 4 month old DS's sleep patterns.

He used to sleep for about 5 hours after settling in the early evening, and then wake up about three times in the night until we got up at half seven/half eight-ish in the morning.

We thought that was hard at the time!

Now he wakes up about every hour and a half. I know 4 months is supposed to be a growth spurt, and possibly a time of sleep regression, but what concerns me is that he doesn't seem hungry when he wakes, he just wants to latch on and then immediately falls asleep again.

We use a dummy at night and for naps, which calms him and helps him drift off to sleep, but he often pulls it out and cries furiously as we try to settle him. Also, if it drops out while he sleeps, he wakes up. So the dummy doesn't seem like the answer, although it certainly helps us in the short term, to help a very cross over-tired little boy get some sleep.

We went away to PILs over Christmas and this probably messed up his sense of routine too.

He has one bottle of formula before bed - since his sleep changed we have tried him on Aptimil Comfort because we thought maybe trapped wind was the problem, but it doesn't seem to have helped (two weeks now). Maybe we should try dairy-free?!

Currently we co-sleep for part of the night because after a few settlings I just get too tired to keep battling away at the cot-face (is a three-sided bedside cot).

So....if anyone has any advice or thoughts/suggestions that would be great.

Also, I have read good things about Jo Tantum's methods - can anyone tell me basically what she says? And if you've had good results?

Thanks!

I'm watching this thread with interest as my 15 week DD is doing exactly the same (except waking even more frequently...)!

Sleep regression.

As it's to do with development, changing milk won't help (if the regression is what it is) - in fact, you just need to sit it out. It's a pain in the arse but ultimately that's will be all you can do

And then you wait for the next one...

Hi, very new to this but need help.... My 5 month old is having terrible problems through the night. Wakes up at about 11pm and is awake about every 45 mins until about 3.30? We put her dummy back in and this works until she pulls it out and cant put it back in again? She has slept through for about 2 weeks so know she can do it and used to wake up just once for food but would go back over no problem. Cant work out why this is happening? we have tried to leave her to settle herself but her crying just gets worse and we tried this for 30 mins... very painful in the middle of the night and frightened this wakes our 3 year old. Any tips would be greatly appreciated as going back to work in one week and dont know how I am going to cope.. arghhh..

Thanks flisspaps I'd love it if it was waitable-outable, but I can't help feeling I am encouraging bad sleep associations by feeding him to sleep, the dummy etc.

For instance I've just settled him for a nap, but had to replace the dummy several times, hold his little arms back from pulling it out....just seems like he isn't getting the chance to work it out for himself. But that would probably involve crying though wouldn't it

I'm a bit of a soft touch, find the idea of not responding to his cries very tough. I know he is far too young for CC, but perhaps there is a gentle way of letting him discover how to drop off on his own....

Which is why I wondered about Jo Tantum, I heard she does something called spaced soothing - anyone know what that is all about?

pinkfondant It's so insanely knackering isn't it!!

loell sounds like you need some solutions very quickly! If I end up buying Jo Tantum's book will come back and outline her recommendations.

In the meantime any other tactics greatly appreciated.....

Does he have a comforter at all? DS has ended up with three little toys in his cot - when he's flailing his arms around getting to sleep he often grabs onto one or even two of them and pulls them in close for a cuddle (in fact he seems to like them right on his face which is alarming). Anyway, having those with him has really helped him to self-settle and also when he grabs them close, they stop his dummy falling out! Or he can chew/suck on the edges of them.

Oov there is no such thing as bad association, he can't develop bad habits so young. Bfing is about so much more than providing food, its about being close to you and comfort too. Research shows that if you meet his needs now, he will cry less in the long run. I think this book describes it far better than I ever could.

As others have said I don't think that changing his milk would be the answer, have a read of this. As you probably already know all kellymom information is evidence based, which is a good thing to look for when you are after information .

They also have some information on 4 month sleep regression which you would probably find interesting.

Also agree that 4 months is way to old for CC, even the people who devised the technique said it was for much older babies.

You might find this or this book helps you.

By far the best way I ever found of getting mine to go to sleep though was just to have them in bed with me and feed them when they wanted it.

What JJJ said

Thanks Jilted

The link concerning the sleep regression reflects DS very well - he is far too interested in the world right now to want to lose himself to luxurious 45 min feeds in the day - he often arches away and gets cross after 5 minutes, desperate to have a good stare at everything!

I love co-sleeping, but it hurts my hips and back; also my Dsis has a little boy who still has sleep problems at 8 years old (they fed to sleep, and co-slept), so I feel a bit wary. I know that not all babies develop sleep problems due to those factors but it does make me a bit uneasy.

Have just read elsewhere that Jo Tantum's spaced soothing is like a micro version of CC - you leave them crying for periods of between 1 min and 5 mins, and taught to distinguish between an annoyed protest cry (which includes pauses and variation in tone) and emotional crying (one-tone, no pauses, to which you always respond).

Still not decided on it though. Will probably wait and see and have a rethink when he's a bit older.

Tough though, because he seems so knackered sometimes in the day, and fights going to sleep...

Hi we've got the same situation with our 4 month old. He starts the night in his cot and then comes in to ours at about half 2 ish depending on how long hes taking to resettle.

We've been trying the jo tantum thing. We have a short feed, listen to 3 lullabies and then put to sleep in his cot awake. I kiss himand say sleepy time now. If he cries ( quite rarely now weve been doing it more 2 weeks) then we wait one minute and go in, put his dummy back in or hand on the chest and say sleepy time now. Leave the room. Then wait 2 mins if still crying, same method again, dont be sympathetic or smily, just matter of fact, sleepy time now. We've never had to go past 5 mins and he foes to sleep.

What ive found as well is that the better naps he has in the day, longer than an hour, the better his awake time now and he sleeps longer for each nap and at night.

Hope this helps

OP I co-slept and fed to sleep for every nap and sleep overnight til DS was at least 9 months old. At the childminders when he started, he fell asleep in her arms on the first morning ( the first time he had ever done this) and after that would settle perfectly happily at hers but at home, still wanted to feed to sleep.

I was happy with this so we carried on. At about 10 months, he would have a feed then was happy to lie down in his cot with me next to him and would go to sleep on his own. I just used to MN in the dark and enjoy the sit down for 30 mins!

He carried on having one feed at night until about 18 months (up feed, straight back to sleep so not as bad as it sounds!) and it took 3 nights of DH going in to settle him (took about 20 mins) and since then he's slept through. Our current betide routine consists of bath, story, cuddle, sleep, takes about 20 mins depending on length of bath! We could have probably done this sooner but due to work commitments, DH wasn't able to help consistently at night until DS was 18 months which was why we waited until then.

Co-sleeping and feeding to sleep, doesn't necessarily mean that you'll have problems in the future or that your DC won't settle for anyone else. I'm pregnant with DC2 now and fully intend to follow the same routine again - and I was vehemently against co-sleeping when I was pregnant the first time!

That should have been too young for CC not too old! .

If its any consolation, I think the problems they are experiencing with DSIS are quite rare, and all the evidence suggests that if you meet their needs now, it will have a better outcome for them in the future.

We co-slept with both of ours, they both sleep through now although we had a rocky start with DS and we are constantly complimented on how happy and socialable they both are.

For me crying, even for just a few minutes, wasn't an option. I just couldn't do it. I just fed them and let them go back to sleep, that way we all got far more sleep.