18 m.o hyper/wrestling before sleep..What am I doing wrong??!!:(

[mammainlove]

We co-sleep, I'm also 4 months pregnant and have almost weaned her from b.m, not by choice, but it hurt too much. She drops off fine in sling+fed to sleep, I already miss this so much! For the past 8mths, if she didnt fall to sleep on breast or in sling, she takes 30-60mins to drop off+will only do this if I cuddle her, screams if I leave her by herself or with Daddy. As this is every night now, it is getting really difficult, +i end up sobbing+ upset for hours (pregnancy hormones dont help).

She is such a happy, gentle little girl in the day, then turns so manic+difficult when I try to put her to bed! We have a bed time routine of dimming lights, bath, books etc, makes no difference..it's like she has so much pent up energy! She wrestles,bites,cries,fast breathing etc, climbs on me which isnt good with my bump. It's also rubbish because she ends up falling to sleep after 11pm, we're all knackered. It just feels like I'm doing something wrong, and I feel terrible that I dont know what!

Sorry for the long post, but does anyone have any suggestions or similar experience?

My18mo is a swine at night. Ive done cc at night and hes getting better, but by god its hard. He was a previous good sleeper prior to this, he also now wakes at 2am onwards with a major screaming fit. Initially thought night terrors but now swaying towards pick me up or i will tantrum for 2hours. I think this cos he throws his dummy away etc. However will keep an open mind. Also cant continue the controlled crying at that time as the neighbours strat hammering on the wall etc it only makes him worse but hey ho. Makes me feel dreadful tho, its bad enough i cant calm him without that. Even DP struggles and he is pretty hands on. Ivejust been reading that it could be sleep deprivation and stems from poor naps in the day, which he used to be good at but the routine got broken as he was poorly and in hosp and ive been in and out of hospital myself in the last few months. I can understand the sleep deprivation tho cos im so tiredi cant actually sleep myself at the mo. Its like having a newborn again.

Big hugs to you xxx

Aww really sorry to hear you're going through this too!

I really need help. My situation is getting worse,we have just been crying and wrestling for an hour again, I can't take it anymore..

Honestly, when you find out could you let me know. I still have to wrestle hyper Dd and she is nearly 3.

Aghhh! Great..

I really need help, please can anyone help me I can't stop crying. I think I'm going to try feeding her again, even though it's so painful, putting her to sleep it's just too difficult, heart wrenching :(

Hiya

(((hugs))) to you. Hope you are feeling a bit brighter now. Did you try & feed today?

There is a big sleep regression at around 18months where everything can go pretty wonky for a while. And chezziejo is right in that the issues at BT could be down to her daytime routine. However I think your issues may be more related to dropping that feed. It sounds like she is protesting b/c she is used to the comfort of that feed before BT & she is probably a bit confused & angry that you have taken it away. I totally understand your need to do that though.

Can I ask a few questions?

What does her daytime routine look like? Wakeup time, naps (time & duration) & bedtime.

Where does she take her naps?

Does she only settle to sleep after a feed or can she put herself to sleep independently?

How long have you co-slept & have you any plans to change this in the near future with the forthcoming arrival of #2?

I am thinking if she is not able to settle independently, then working on this will be the key to solving your troubles. Let us know the answers to your questions & we will try & help you formulate a plan.

Thank you omama.. Her day time routine is getting up about 10/11 hours after she goes to sleep, playing with toys, going to a play group or walk then nap 5/6 after waking up, been feeding her to sleep until a few days ago, now she goes in car or sling, providing somebody like dp is about, otherwise I struggle as I don't drive + sling is heavy! I am very worried about this. She does nap for 1+1/2-2 hours usually though, have tried laying with her, no chance! Bouncing on bed etc. So she usually naps on bed, and we struggle with getting her to sleep independently. We have co slept all her life, 18mths. Yes we plan to get her into her own bed gradually before baby#2 arrives, but not until she has settled with dropping her feeds.

I an aware of the 18 month regression, though she has just started sleeping through which is amazing! I just wish settling her wasn't such a nightmare..

Thank you for offering to help me, really appreciate it..x

Also her bedtime at the moment is 11.30! We usually start putting her to bed (after 30-60 mins lights dimmed, book reading etc) but it's taking her 1 or more hours to get to sleep, and she wakes up 9.30ish so isn't tired before then. I will wake her up early after xmas when she's home so hopefully she'll be tired earlier, but since I can remember she has always struggled getting to sleep without being fed/rocked and it gets more difficult, longer now..

• sorry, putting her to bed 10/10.30 that meant to say.

Would it help if you woke your dd at 7am every morning even if she went to bed late to try to reset her body clock to go to bed earlier. Also no naps after 3pm? I'm still struggling with sleep for my dd but found Millpond book and phone service helpful and am making some progress...

Thank you, yes I am going to wake her up earlier, not every morning if she goes to bed late though as she will be so tired every day and this isn't good for her. She also needs a nap, if I try stop her napping she gets really upset and difficult and passes out at some point anyway.

Definitely don't stop her from napping - this will just make her overtired.

What is your ideal routine for your DD? Do you want her to keep waking at 9.30am or are you prepared to accept an earlier wake up in order for her to go to bed earlier? 11.30pm is a really late BT, you must be getting absolutely no time to yourself so there's no wonder things are feeling so difficult.

IIWM I would gradually start to wake her up a little earlier - maybe 15mins every few nights/week until she's waking at the ideal time for you. The earlier WU will mean she needs to nap earlier & so BT will also need to be earlier, & your new routine will be established. I wouldn't suddenly wake her at 7am if she's been going to bed at 11.30 or you will have one very OT little lady on your hands.

Well I'm here to tell you you CAN sort this out now, but it WILL NOT be easy. DD is used to being fed/rocked/cuddled in sling to sleep and she doesn't know how to fall asleep without it. She can learn another way, but as she is older, it will take a lot longer to break the habit. And there will be a LOT of crying. You need to be really committed, and if you have anyone who can help you for the first few days/nights then this may make things a lot easier.

Now the sleep training method you use is entirely your choice. The most common approaches are as follows:

Controlled crying - Leave your baby to cry for five minutes, then go in to soothe them, then leave. Then you wait ten minutes before going in again, then 20, then 30 minutes

Pick up Put Down/Settle and leave - Put baby in the cot, say your key sleepy phrase. When they start crying (which they will), pick them up without fussing or sounding like you feel sorry for them. Talk to them calmly until they stop screaming and put them down immediately. If they start again on the way down, put them right down and pick them up again. Repeat repeat repeat. Might take 100 goes the first time, but this rapidly decreases

Walk In/Walk Out - Settle baby to bed & leave the room. Wait outside the child's door and assess the situation. It's important to distinguish between different types of cries and identify when your child is truly upset and when they may be settling themselves. Remain outside the room if your child is making fussy-type cries or noises. If crying is starting then stopping, hang back and wait. If crying escalates go in to resettle your child. Repeat your phrase "time to go night-night you can find your blankie/pacifier/suck your thumb/etc. to help you fall asleep" and leave again. Comforting should be brief and you should avoid picking up your child. Upon leaving the room again, wait outside the door and reassess the situation. The amount of time you wait is determined by how your child is reacting inside. The key is to hang back enough to give your child space to fall asleep independently, but to respond to truly upset cries.

Gradual Withdrawal - Aim is to reduce the child's reliance on parental presence/assistance gradually and in very small increments so the child continues to settle well and gains confidence in their ability to fall asleep independently. The parent is there to assist the child in sleeping, but slowly reduces the dependence over time, eg moving a chair closer and closer to the door until out of the room over the course of a few weeks.

Whichever method you choose, I think firstly you need to completely stop letting her nap in the sling or car, and concentrate on getting her to nap in bed. Secondly, you then need to work on teaching her to go to sleep independently without being rocked/fed/cuddled to sleep.

I do wonder if you may be better to kill 2 birds with 1 stone & get her napping in her own bed (or cot? - would be safer at this age) now, b/c I worry that if you leave her to nap alone in your bed she could end up either falling out of bed, or trying to get out of bed instead of sleeping. Also I am not sure how effective sleep training will be if you carry on co-sleeping b/c it would be very easy for you to slip back into your old habits, AND it will save having to do another round of sleep training when you have to move her to her own bed when you are heavily pregnant.

Bless her - she's got a lot of change going on at the moment hasn't she? But if you can be consistent & persevere with it you should get some real improvements. If your DH could do the first few nights that would probably help b/c she already knows she can't get BF from him!!!

Hope this helps. Gosh sorry for the epic post!!!

Aww thank you I really appreciate your support. Last night it took 3 hours to get her to sleep, she started off going in the sling with dp walking round the block and woke up when they got in. don't think we'll be trying that again. Tonight I started off putting her to sleep then my dp took over when she started biting and kicking. She cried as usual for 10 mins or so, which was so horrible to hear! :( I managed to resist going up to her, and she dropped to sleep after another 5 mins with dp singing to her! This has happened before, for some reason she doesnt wrestle or bite dp (?) it's just unfortunate she cries when dp takes over, but maybe she'll get used to him in a few days? The other good thing is she doesnt ask for b.m really, as she likes warm soyia or oat milk. I'm wondering whether it'd be best for d.p to do all the settling or if I should start off. Any suggestions?

I think gradual retreat is the best option. I'm not sure now is the right time to do it though, as she's already going through so many changes.

I'm still deciding whether to put her in a cot (the idea of her being contained makes me very sad), or matress on floor near our bed (we also have matress on floor so it is safe), then own room in time.

I just think, is it necessary she goes through this phase with so many tears, often only passing out in exhaustion? Do most babies? I know all parents struggle with guilt, it's just horrible.

Thanks again for support x

Hiya Hun hope your still getting on ok. My ds has gad his beftimetime changed to 8.30. Dunno why half hour makes a difference but it did. He's now on a strict bedtime routine bath at 7ish with only z few toys, he comes downstairs and plays a while just quiet play and then I say bedtime in 5 mins. We go up he turns his lamp on and he goes in cot. I read a story and now instead of tears he snuggled into cot and starts to fall asleep. Last two nights he slept through. I also sit quietly next to cot when story finished if he's still awake until he is drowsy which has been taking around ten mins and then I say night gently and leave. He sometimes whimpers but quiet before I've got down the stairs. There is hope Hun so keep at it. Cc is awful bug it worked fir us without a doubt. I'm sure there will be regression along the way but feel able to cope now.

Bloody phone and these spelling mistakes. I do apologise :-/

Is your LO overtired possibly? DD's bedtime jumped backward at one point from 8.30pm to 7pm it took me a few days to work out that the hyper thing only happened when she was overtired (at which point it would take hours for her to settle), changed her bedtime to 7pm and she is usually asleep within 20mins. She does wake up a little earlier (7.30 instead of 8am) but it beats having her struggle for hours to get to sleep.

HTH

Thank you c and p, Yes I intend to tryputting her to sleep earlier. I've got a feeling she will still wrestle with me, it's turned into a bit of a habit now, but hopefully it might not last as long..

hi mammainlove - how are things going?

I agree gradual withdrawal is probably the gentlest option, I'm not a fan of CC myself - its very very difficult. Whether you do it now is entirely your choice, though I fear that if you put it off for too long, baby #2 will be here before you know it & if you have to do it then, that will be a lot of upheaval for her.

WRT whether DP or you do the settling that is up to you but I would say whoever starts, should continue until she is asleep. If you start, and DP takes over mid way through this is likely to give confusing/mixed messages to her, so if she is biting you then IIWM I'd let DP do at least the first couple of nights.

As for bed - again, your choice. The only reasons I suggested cot rather than bed is 1 for safety (but mattress on floor shouldn't be an issue) and 2 she is still quite young to be in a bed on her own, & will she understand that she has to stay in it? I worry you will make all this effort to have her sleep independently only to find she keeps on getting out of bed over & over, & then you have another problem to resolve IYSWIM? Just trying to think one step at a time.

Also agree with piggyboo she is probably OT at BT - so definitely start shifting that BT earlier.

Hope all turns out ok.x

Thanks omama. It's been alright the last few nights actually, she falls to sleep much better with dp, though she still gets a bit upset. I suppose I start off in bed with her because I don't want her to think I've completely abandoned her, and I love cuddling her so much! Also I live in hope that she will calm down with me and not bite..dp won't always be able to put her to bed as he sometimes works late. I do see what u mean about mixed messages though.

I really just can't imagine her dropping off independently, though it would be absolutely amazing if she did. Do u really believe it's possible? This may sound like a silly question but can all children? X

Re changing bedtime, I'd just do it in one go not 15 mins a day. It's a similar issue to jet lag - we recently did a trip to NZ with 7mo - we might have been lucky but she was back on normal bedtime just 3 days after arriving and that's a time difference of 13 hours - they do cope pretty well with wholesale shifts in daytime routine but you have to shift everything not just bedtime. I.e move wake up, meals, naps (may take a couple of days) and esp dinner time.

Total regression this evening, just when I thought everything was looking up! Got her in bed for 8.30, she was again totally hyper, after milk and books I laid with her and she pinched and bit straight away so dp came up. She cried for 15 mins getting worse until I couldn't stay away and dp told me to come up as she was hysterical. I've never seen her so distraught, she couldn't get her breathe but soon went to sleep when she was sure I wasn't going to leave her again..

What am I to do now? It's so confusing. I thought she was getting used to dp settling her as she went to sleep fast with less tears recently. I definitely won't let her get this hysterical again. I'm really upset again