'If they wake, don't offer water/milk...' Really?

[fruitybread]

Friend has a 13 month old DS, who has generally only woken a couple of times at night even when very young, so hasn't been a sleep ordeal for her - but she's been 'encouraging' him to sleep through the night for a while now. For her, this means 7 til 7, btw.

She knows I am not a fan of CC or anything like it, and I don't think she would tell me if she was doing it (fair enough). But she has mentioned that her health visitor told her that if her DS wakes during the night, she shouldn't offer him a drink, just soothe him and put him back down.

I have heard this from a few other friends with babies around a year, or younger. I've said 'really? No drink at all? over 12 hours?' And they say, yes, this is the advice they've been given - both my HVs AND by friends. Apparently the justification is something like if you give a drink during the night, they will 'expect' it and wake just to drink. They have to 'learn' they won't get it etc.

All the language is a bit coercive for my liking - I'm uncomfortable with the idea that babies this young are capable of manipulative controlling behaviour in this way (and I know plenty will disagree with me) - but I'm also concerned about dehydration.

I just don't see how this can be right - I don't know any adults who drink absolutely no liquids for 12 hours through the night! and what if babies are waking/hard to settle because they are thirsty?? Has anyone else had this advice from HVs? Is this part of some popular 'sleep training' school of thought?

I don't agree with this either.

I think it is quite common for HV's, baby training books etc. to advise not to offer milk at night after around 6 months but to offer water instead. I guess that isn't too bad but it's not for me. I bf'd mine when they woke at night until they slept through of their own accord - around 6 months for DS and 8 months for DD.

Denying a thirsty child water sounds plain mean to me. I can understand the justification that they will get used to it but I'm afraid this is where I part company with the baby trainers.

well i never see HV's so I don't know if it's standard advice.

sounds pretty horrible to me though.

to be honest I don't have a drink through the night, and my children rarely do. but if one of my kids woke then I would offer them a drink in case they were thirsty.

seems pretty unkind not to

Well I can go through the night without a drink. DS is 7.5 months and from about 8 weeks was doing a 12 hour stretch at night without a drink. His sleep sort of went to pot around 16 weeks and we went back to one wake up a night, but not every night would he take a drink. It was usually the last thing we would try to get him back to sleep, after nappy change and a cuddle.

I think its all about the individual baby, some need a drink through the night some don't.

When my DD was 9 months old it became clear to me that she was waking and asking for a drink to help her get back to sleep, rather than out of hunger. It was part of her soothing process. She was exclusively bf and had no idea how to put herself to sleep without feeding.
She was big enough to survive the night without nutrition.
I therefore decided to stop feeding her at night. This was my own choice and not done due to any advice I recieved from anyone. I was simply ready for us both to sleep better after 9 months of broken sleep.
She cried for 3 nights, but I never left her alone. I comforted her and offered her water, which she never accepted.
After 3 nights, even if she woke for other reasons, she never asked for a drink in the middle of the night again.
Personally, I decided that if she woke from about 4:00am onwards, it was likely that she would be hungry and I therefore fed her happily in those circumstances.

This was not traumatic and was not a problem for either of us. On the contrary. it helped her to learn to self-settle and saved us both from having unnecessarily disturbed sleep.

It's fairly typical advice with regard to 'sleep training'. I don't pay much attention to it, though. As I take a glass of water to bed with me and usually drink some if I wake up in the night, I wouldn't dream of denying a child. When DS2 used to wake up in the night I used to offer him water in a sippy cup - particularly because he is rather adenoidal and prone to snoring/coughing in his sleep - but most of the time he'd just push it away. Now he's old enough to ask if he wants anything, and I wouldn't deny him.

I have water at night - I am probably processing more wine salted food than a baby, but I hate to be thirsty at night. And my older child has always been a water hound day and night, and now he can ask, I know he genuinely gets thirsty - you just never know if the little ones have a dry throat and can't sleep because of it.

I think there's a big difference between offering milk and offering water at night, for a child of this age. When fully weaned, children shouldn't need nutrition at night unless they are not eating well during the day. However, thirst is a different matter and if I suspected my child of being thirsty (as she has been on a few occasions for various reasons) I would always offer her water.

I have only rarely offered milk when I was concerned that maybe hunger was a cause for waking; however it was rarely accepted.

Surely if a baby isn't thirsty, they will simply refuse a drink/bottle/beaker?

The idea that actually witholding liquid from a baby for 12 hours (12 hours!!) is in any way a healthy thing is something I just can't get my head round. I sympathise with the sleep deprived, I truly do, it's hideous beyond, and I know we can all get desperate -

But really, how does refusing to give them milk or water for 12 hours 'help' them sleep?

Fruity I think people assume they are waking for some other reason and if you start feeding them, they will come to expect it. But surely this will only happen if you're feeding them on a regular basis?

I generally ignore HV's advice and go by my instinct. My child drinks a lot during the day so it figures she may well be thirsty at night (like me).

Night time milk feeds have to stop sometime. And I agree there is a big difference between milk and water.

By 12 months DS1 had got used to having 2 X 8oz bottles in the night, and really there was no need for it. I told him just after his first birthday" Tonight no mummy no daddy, no milk" which he accepted and slept through (that night anyway, he later decided he still wanted mummy and daddy in the night!)

DS1 stopped night breast feeds at 17 months/ DD was 9 months. Neither were impressed when offered water.

Op babies will happily suckle if they are not thirsty, many kids use bottles or breast instead of dummies to.soothe. my 17 mnth old sometimes.still has breast when he wakes up in the night.

It helps them.sleep as they learn to self.soothe and come out of one sleep cycle on to the next without fully waking and looking for a bottle/ breast.

My friend mentioned something about thinking offering milk or water would become a 'reward' for waking up (and I'm not talking a 'feed' here, given DS is over 1 year - I mean sips from a beaker or cup) -

But it seems more like witholding liquid is a kind of punishment? and I don't see how that makes sense with a baby of that age. If we're talking about an assertive 3 year old who has asked for a drink 4 times in a row and is clearly just stalling/exerting control, that's a different kettle of fish. But at this age? I really don't see how it can be healthy. As I say - if they don't want a drink, and aren't thirsty, they will just refuse it when offered.

mine all stopped wanting a feed in the night by themselves.
that was around 6 months for ds1, 2.5 years for ds2 and around 2yrs for ds3

that was when they started sleeping through, and so I have never needed to replace the milk with water or whatever else.

i don't think that you need to stop milk feeds... kids will generally do it by themselves

a drink can only ever be a "reward" for waking up if the child can choose to wake up and have it.

are they suggesting that a child can actually MAKE itself wake up just so it can get a drink?

"It helps them.sleep as they learn to self.soothe and come out of one sleep cycle on to the next without fully waking and looking for a bottle/ breast."

How do they 'self soothe' if they are thirsty? Or does the parent just decide that they cannot possibly be thirsty at all during the night, and therefore all liquid will be withheld?

thisisyesterday - well, yes, that does seem to be what the thinking is. I don't understand it, I admit.

I really think the advice is based on not giving children who don't 'need' milk in the night, large quantities of milk if they wake - without exploring other reasons for waking first. Of course, you should read your child appropriately and if thirst may be an issue, then offer them a drink.

They are not thirsty all the time, just used to being suckled to sleep. A mother normally can tell the difference if they wake up and after comfort etc they still crying then they may be thirsty, but insteqd of straight away putting child to breast, first try just patting, shushing etc and they quickly go back to sleep without suckling then obviously they weren't thirsty and just needed comfort.

I suppose my thoughts are - it's a bit problematic deciding when babies don't 'need' milk feeds at night (I remember being so confused by, and luckily ignoring in the end, people telling me my 6 month old EBF baby 'should' be sleeping without any need for feeds at night. He did need them) -

There's also a big gulf between people who view feeding just as nutrition, and people who view it as nutrition and comfort/closeness - and people who decide that feeding for comfort is important, and those who think it's inconvenient and unnecessary, so should be stopped -

There's not much agreement as far as I can see. However! I do see that for an older baby (say a year plus?), then if through habit, they have got used to having a significant size actual feed at a time that has become very inconvenient for a parent, then the parent would prefer them to drop that feed (or move it earlier/later).

That I can understand. I see how not automatically offering a large milk feed would be part of nudging their DC into a different sleep/feed pattern. (I don't see that a baby that doesn't need a large milk feed would have one when they weren't hungry, though)

But that's not what these mums are being told, or what they are trying to do. They are not offering water, or milk, or any liquid, to their babies when they wake at night and are unhappy. The thinking seems to be that they have to 'train' their babies out of being thirsty at night. Over 12 hours! I just don't see how that is possible - or healthy.

I know someone whose child was feeding at night to the extent that it was affecting his appetite during the day - and by doing so, eliminating important nutrients/vitamins from his diet that he would have got from solids because he was full up on milk.

I think a lot of children who continue to be fed past 12 months at night are breastfed and it's about comfort, rather than hunger.

Once ds stopped having milk in the night (about 9 months) I just offered water in a beaker. From about 12 months he had a non-spill beaker of water in his cot so he can help himself.

I often wake for a sip of water in the night, especially this time of year when I have a cold and a blocked nose.