can any advise re sleep training 4 month old dtds?

[PrincessScrumpy]

they used to sleep well - bath, bf then in cot at 8.30pm, dream feed at 11.30pm, then sleep to 6 or 7am. then they started waking for feeds at 3.30am (like when they were newborn), but the last week it's all gone wrong - not going down at 8.30pm, just screaming but they'd been sleeping from 11.30pm so we were okay but now they're not even doing that - or one does and other doesn't.

on top of this, dd1 (3.5yo) keeps coming in our bed as she's got a bad cold/cough - I'm exhausted as is dh who drives 2 hours each day to and from work.

now 16wo, is it too early to sleep train? dtd2 just cried herself to sleep as i had to put her in her cot so i could help dd1 clean herself after a messy poo. She's now been asleep for 30mins after an hour of me cuddling her and her drifting off then screaming. i'm wondering if this is what to do at night!?

This is classic growth spurt time - 16/17 weeks. It will settle down and if you do a search on here you will find loads of threads about it. Horrible while it's happening, but it won't last. I think sleep training isn't recommended until at least 6 months.

I keep being told that they're having a growth spurt everytime I'm struggling - the thing is, the last few nights when they've refused to settle it's not due to hunger. Last night dtd1 wanted to play (all smiles and cooing but screaming if we left her in her cot). The 3.30am feed I can deal with, it's the not sleeping either side of that feed that's exhausting me.

So far I've introduced 2 bottles - mid pm and 11.30pm when dh can help as bfing wasn't going brilliantly. I hope to carry in mix feeding but am getting so tired.

What is their sleep pattern like during the day?

Sorry, pressed post by accident!

Was going to go on to say that it may be they need to cut back on their afternoon nap (if they are having one). Not settling at night is a classic sign of either hunger or too much daytime sleep. Please don't think it's always hunger or 'sleep regression' - I have seen so many cases of babies sleeping badly at night because their daytime sleep is all over the place. It drives me mad!!

They sleep in the morning for about 2 hours then a shorter nap in the afternoon (about 40mins). Today dtd1 only had an hour in the morning and dtd2 only had 30mins after an hour of crying despite me trying to feed her and comfort her. That was when she fell asleep in her cot. Tonight we put them down (after keeping them awake for the last hour between 6.30pm and 7.30pm, and dtd1 has screamed since. We have tried comforting but she's not settling. dtd2 is not asleep but laying there watching her sister. We have been going up every 10 minutes to calm dtd1.

I think it may be hunger and that bfing isn't enough for them. I liked the idea of bf before bed then bottle at 11.30pm but perhaps it's time to put the boobs away. :(