No Cry Sleep Solution - anyone used it? Need advice

[attheendoftheday]

DD is nearly 7 months old, has never been a great sleeper. We mostly co-sleep (DD starts the night in her pram next to the bed but always ends up in with us at some point), don't want to use CC (obviously no comment on those who do, just our choice). Since about 4 months DD has been up 2-3 times a night, but gone back to sleep easily breastfeeding. This has meant I'm only barely waking, so was pretty copeable with for me.

However, in the last three weeks she has started waking a lot more at night, and only sleeping when on my breast (literally all night) and it's got to the point where I need to change something. I read the No Cry Sleep Solution and last night tried to get her to sleep without breastfeeding (obviously having fed her earlier, not so she was hungry!). During the evening it was ok, she woke several times but got her back to sleep by soothing her without feeding/rocking etc. But overnight it was horrific. She cried and cried, nothing I did could comfort her, I did not seem able to do what the book recommended, in getting her really sleepy so she will go to sleep on her own. When she did drift off she woke after only a few minutes rooting for my nipple (I did feed her a couple of times so I knew she couldn't be hungry). DD's probably slept about 3 hours in total, I've slept less.

This morning DD is screamingly tired but doesn't seem able to drop off without feeding (I fed her at 7 so she isn't hungry). I feel traumatised and like I've ended up doing cc without meaning to. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong with the book's advice, and not sure whether to keep going (surely she'll have to sleep at some point?). Does anybody have any advice for me? Feeling desperate!

Well it's only one night - that can take a lot longer to crack!

Do you have plans to move to a cot? That might be easier otherwise she'll be so close to boob she might find it hard to not get it.
Could she be teething? This might explain why she wants boob non stop (and in which case it'll be incredibly difficult to wean her when she's uncomfortable). If you can address the teething pain then you can wean more easily.

Is she teething? If it could be, I'd leave it a few days, just get through any which way. I really like the ncss (though I admit it just sort of made me feel better and less like I was the only person whose baby didn't sleep!). I don't think she says anywhere to refuse to feed your baby; don't you gradually gradually get them used to falling asleep on their own?

Am I right in thinking that the No Cry Sleep Solution doesn't actually suggest one solution, but rather lots of ideas that you can try? (I haven't read the whole book, just the newborn and four month bits so perhaps it's different for older babies) I chose two things to try for the first week (gentle removal method and a lovey) and plan to add extra 'solutions' each week. It's working slowly, which is fine for me as I didn't want any big sudden changes, just baby steps towards longer sleeps.

I think the overall message of that book is to do what works for you though isn't it?

When I've had bad nights and have woken feeling 'desperate', I've retreated to bed with LO, had lots of cuddles and skin-to-skin, fed him as much as he wants, let him nap in my arms, and then tried the 'solutions' again later. I'm sure other people (and certainly my DP!) think this is 'soft' or 'mollycoddling', but it makes me feel better and then I have the energy to try different methods for the next nap or night time.

You need to do what feels right for you, but don't beat yourself up if you want to comfort your child and don't feel like a failure after one night of trying!

Thanks everyone, I'm back from a short walk with a calmer DD and need to state my situation a bit more clearly.

I know it's only one night, but it's on top of three weeks of very little sleep, which is on top of seven months of disrupted sleep, which is probably making it harder to cope with. I wasn't expecting to crack my problem in one night, but I wasn't expecting DD to howl off and on for ten hours either.

I'm as sure as I reasonably can be that DD isn't teething (though obviously can't be 100%). She's been wanting to feed all night for three weeks with no other signs of teething and she's fine during the daytime.

I wold be sad to stop co-sleeping but would consider it to get more sleep as I'm not coping very well at present.

I should have been clearer in my initial post, I didn't refuse to feed DD, I tried to feed her until nearly asleep then use the gentle removal, but I didn't seem able to get her to a point where she wouls stay sleepy when I did this, and as the night got later 'nearly asleep' became 'probably asleep' then 'definitely asleep'. She still woke up instantly and started crying every time. The more I tried the more distressed DD got, to the point where she wouldn't feed and I couldn't seem to comfort her any other way (and I tried everything I could think of).

I know there are other sleep solutions in the book and have previously introduced a key word sleep cue and regular daytime naps with some success, but the feeding all night is by far the biggest problem, so is what I wanted to tackle.

Thanks for the kind words Truth, everyone thinks I mollycoddle DD too. Am sitting cddling with her now.

Sorry didn't mean to sound horrible - my DS didn't sleep through reliably until he was nearly 1? And even then he still had blips -
I was incredibly sleep deprived for the first year.

Can you rest as much as possible in the day? I had to force myself to nap with DS once he started napping in his cot otherwise I'd feel the need to do stuff. I started eating meals with DS once he was on solids just so I had no excuse to do things at nap time. This will make things marginally easier for you.

As for the night wakings/feedings, DS went through a massive growth spurt at 6 months and a developmental leap too.

I would consider moving her to a cot (is she flat in her pram? Just wondered if she liked the incline) - could you swap the cot for a pram?

Another option to cut down night feeds is to time each one the first night. Take her off boob once she's asleep. Then the next night, reduce each feed by one minute every night (except for her first night feed a few hours after she goes down).so it's a gradual reduction. It could take a week or so but I know a couple of people have success with this method. You give a bedtime feed at 6.30pm and one night feed so you know she's not hungry.

As for teething - DS almost always shows more signs at night probably because he's distracted in the day. His first teeth (at 6 months) took forever - you could see the outline of them before they popped. It might be a dull ache as opposed to full on pain.

Final thing to consider is whether solids are giving her an upset tummy as it is a bit new for them. I had to cut down his solids as DS would get bad wind at night and want feeding all the time. A teaspoon of peppermint tea also worked wonders.

Thanks Iggly, that's really helpful. I really hope DD is teething, as I'd love to go back to our old 3 times a night waking pattern (I thought it was awful at the time, now I think I would feel so refreshed!). I hadn't thought about going on to solids being the problem, but she started wanting to feed all night at just the same time she started on solids, so it might well be connected.

Do you have a partner? What's working for us (at the moment, will no doubt change soon!) is that I settle LO with a feed, white noise & his 'lovey' but if he wakes in less than three hours then DP tries to settle him without a feed. It usually works. If it doesn't we have a heated discussion about whether to feed him or do something else. The 'something else' is usually rocking, swaddling or white noise as that's what works for him (usually!)

As I said, I'm the 'soft one' in this relationship so if I feel LO is getting too upset then I just feed him much to DP's annoyance

We introduced this when LO reverted to waking every 90 mins about 2 weeks ago. I also didn't believe it could be teething (he wasn't even four months then) but, sure enough, his first tooth broke through a few days later.

I know how awful the sleep deprivation is and I hope you get it sorted soon

Ah yes - the risk is you fill up with solids which have less calories (milk is pretty filling) and they get hungry at night. Best approach is to give solids after a feed at first then gradually reduce feeds and up solids.

Hi there, I feel like I am in a similar position to you, where my 8mo DD wakes up frequently in the night, and won't be settled without a feed. I've been trying the NCSS for three nights and I've also found that DD won't just drift off by herself after a couple of times of pulling out, that finally the moment it works is when she's already asleep! Sometimes she won't let me take my breast out at all, and I end up falling asleep with her attached.

So today i have worked out that I can feed until sleepy, and then take my breast out of her mouth, get up straight away with her and rock her (holding her upright against my chest) until she has fallen asleep. I can then put her down and leave my hand on her chest until she is definately asleep. SO I don't really know if it is better for her to fall asleep in my arms being rocked, rather than fed. I suppose it is if the first goal is to get her to fall asleep without the breast, the second to get her to fall asleep in her cot, and the third to get her to go to sleep by herself (yeah right).

Nectarina, if it's any consolation, that's pretty much how I'm feeling. I worry that I've replaced 'feeding to sleep' with rocking, hand on chest and/or white noise. However, i argue (with myself!) that at least DP can help with the settling if we break the feeding pattern and that (hopefully, hopefully, hopefully) once LO can sleep without feeding he'll get better at self settling.

Hi there- I had some success reducing night feeds using her method and by popping a dummy in instead of the nipple when ds was nearly asleep - I also moved ds so he was more at waist height thinking he might smell the milk less. I ve far from cracked it tho- it took 3 tricky nights of frequent wakings and tears to change the pattern All stayed fine for about a week then ds was poorly yesterday and spent all last night attached to me - hmm

sunnyweather - could you say how exactly you reduced the night feeds please. do you still feed when your ds wakes up, only you try to reduce it in length each time? the dummy is out for us now sadly - i used to pop it in at the end of a feed so she'd drift off with it but she's refused it for the last 2 weeks. Screws up her mouth and turns her head away! I was worried about inventing dummy fairies when she's 3 but looks like i won't have to.

I bought the book but didn't really get on with the writer's tone of voice so I guess I was put off trying her techniques. It all seemed a bit wishy washy to me and being sleep deprived I think I needed something less wordy and more instructional!

In the end, my problem was solved by cutting down my LO's daytime sleep which was the cause of her nighttime waking. However, she was already in her own cot and we had never slept together so I could comfortably rule out a few other sleep associations which your LO may have.

The Baby Whisperer book is good and Tracy Hogg's pick up put down method really does work (I've seen her in action on TV). Have you read that?

Atruth - that sounds like the 4 month sleep regression it passes till the next thing!!

Nectarina sonds like we're in the same boat! I've just put DD down using the technique you described and it worked, so thank you.

We had a better night last night, and the gentle removal technique worked a couple of times.

LoveIs it's funny you mention that, a rl friend has just suggested I look at the pick up put down technique too, so I will definitely check it out.

Thanks everyone.

Nectarina the way i did it was i made sure ds had had plenty to eat and then didnt feed between 11 and 4. Instead I picked up, rocked, shushed, used a lovey, offered dummy and offered finger to suck. I was also trying to get him into his cot so would put him back there when asleep, I also tried to get him to fall asleep there but with little success. There were frequent wakings, and tears but he wasnt left to cry alone. That said, in the early hours of the 3rd morning dh came in cos hed been woken from the spare room downstairs by ds crying - he was in the cot next to the bed and I was crashed out on the bed due to exhaustion!! At that point we decided to have a break from it.

By the end of it we had progressed from him only falling asleep with my nipple in his mouth and waking hourly to feed. we had movewd on to him sleeping at waist height(but still in contact with me) and not feeding between 11 and 330. Basically feeding had been replaced by cuddling as a sleep cue. At 330 if he was waking I would bring him up and feed him and he would take a good feed (he used to just take tiny amounts thro the night) I would then let him stay cuddling and feeding as much as he wanted until it was time to get up.

Anyway, im afraid it has all gone massively backwards since ds was unwell for a couple of days- we.re not quite back to the original situation but not far from it. I dont have the energy to do it all again yet and am just sort of hoping that he reverts back (ha ha who am I kidding!) so that we can progress to our end goal of him sleeping in his own bed with a dream feed and then coming into our bed for his early morning feed. If anyone has tips please let me know!

nectarina just re read your post and realised that ive just described pretty much what you have also done! Looks like me you and attheendoftheday are all in the same boat. Id love to hear how you guys get on keep me posted

I will keep posting - I'm in a bit of a resignation period. It seems like whatever we do doesn't make any difference (or changes things for 2 days), and I'm fed up of thinking about this in the day. My head is just full of wondering what we could be doing differently, and I feel like i have a devil on my shoulder telling me to CIO and an angel telling me not to...
What seems to work best for us is to not look at the clock, DH gets up to crying DD and briefly tries to rock her back to sleep, but we know quite quickly if its going to work, if it doesn't he brings her to me and I feed her without falling asleep (if not we end up sleeping with boob in mouth). when she's asleep i prod DH in the back and he gets up and puts her in the cot.
What works well for us doing it this way is that i don't feel resentful that i'm the only one dealing with it, and when i do get up I find i can't go back to sleep where it doesn't bother OH. every now and then he sleeps on the sofa, and i co sleep to give him a treat.
it feels like pissing about pantley pull-outing just makes things more annoying than they are already. and i've spent a whole week doing it now to no difference (if anything i have to leave boob in more cos she's anticipating me pulling it out, and she's on her guard)
But something that does seem to be working - we'd resigned ourselves to 2 30min naps every day and no more. for 1 week i've been hovering at the end of nap 2, and as soon as she wakes I get in bed with her, and feed her and she'll go back to sleep (idea is after a week of this she'll not wake until later). She now naps for 1hr, and if i feed her after this she can go for 2 hours!

Nectarina my dd was feeding at night with her hand in guard position to stop me taking her off.

Hi. Just posting with some words of encouragement. I got the NCSS in the summer as my DD (now 11 months) has never been a good sleeper- woke every 2 hrs in night for feed and co slept with us till about 6 months when I started to get bad shoulder pain. Never really napped in the daytime either unless walked for nearly an hour and a half or carried in a sling, but again, she got too heavy for my shoulder at 6 months.

I liked some of the suggestions in the book, but it made me feel a bit of a failure when it said you had to crack daytime naps and that anything under a certain amount of time didn't count. I spent days in the house trying to get my daughter to sleep in the cot for a least an hour and it nearly drove me mad on top of the 5/6 nighttime wakings, but the one thing I did persevere with was getting her in the cot. One night she woke up 12 times! Some nights we had to abandon it if she just got beside herself, but we kept at it and she's slept in her cot now in her own room since Sep. In the last week she had slept through 6 nights out of 7 from 6.30pm to around 5.30/6am which I can tell you is sheer bliss and therefore hasn't had a night feed.

I found that some of the ideas in the book were useful, but it wasn't a quick fix as it's taken us 4 months to get things to a point where I am not totally exhausted. I was hoping to see a marked improvement quickly, but don't stress out if this isn't the case.

This is what worked for me:

• Weaning - as she filled up and ate more at tea time, I was more confident about not b/feeding her before midnight again. Often she'd feed then and maybe another time before 6am when she woke up. Gradually she moved onto only waking once and when she did I tried not to feed her then.
• I did do the removal from the breast when feeding, but it took a long time and she protested. I still find it hard to get the timing right and she's often just about asleep when she goes in the cot.
• I take up a cup of water and offer her that instead of a b/f.
• I bought a rocking chair and she is rocked until nearly asleep and then transferred to cot - couldn't have managed without it.
• I bought a musical cot mobile which goes on every time I put her in the cot and I do use sleep cue words.
• I have accepted that 2 x 20 mins naps (am and pm) is all she needs and it has made no difference to night time as she is now sleeping through.
• My DH going into her made very little difference!
• DO whatever it takes to get through the night if you are totally exhausted.

Good luck!

Hi again, thanks for your post westyorkshiregirl so there is light at the end of the tunnel?

nectarina your dh sounds lovely!
scaryfairy i hope your last couple of nights have been better.
Just to let you know whats happened here. Ive gone back to the no feeds between 11 and 4 (well 330!) rule, ive rocked and shushed instead and i think it is maybe working. That said only had 2 hours sleep last night but it was between 130 and 330 and he would normally have been asking for boob then... so not getting any sleep but perhaps one step closer. Poor soul is choked with cold so sniffles were keeping us all up.

Yes, thanks westyorkshiregirl - you have given me the courage to carry on as we are. I feel like I am not quite tired enough to resort to an awful regime, so I have the patience to carry on with the NCSS for another few months! Can I ask for a bit of precision, please? Did your DD cut down on the night feeds herself a bit, or was it just because of you not feeding? And how exactly does it go to feed less at night - If DDs crying, it doesn't seem to do anything to rock her or cuddle, she knows what she wants! But this could be because I'm always too tired to try anything in the middle of the night - in the morning I'm disappointed in myself for just feeding straight away, but in the night it doesn't seem to be possible for me to do anything else.
So did you just pick her up when she was crying and rock her in the rocking chair?
scaryfairy DON'T YOU DARE TAKE YOUR BREAST AWAY
and lastly sunnyweather DH is very happy with your compliment! He's so patient, and I'm so grouchy and impatient.
We're clearing out the bin bags of borrowed clothes from her room so we can put her cot in there - I'm wondering if we wake her up in the night with our creaky bed. Let you know how we get on.