When is old enough to 'sleep train'?

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Ds2 is 8 weeks and currently feeds to sleep for all naps/night sleep. He never sleeps more than 3 hours at a stretch and even that is rare. He never falls asleep by himself and usually wakes after 45 minutes - if he's with me i pick him up, rock him back to sleep, put him back down and continue doing this every 45 minutes until his next feed; if it's dh, he picks him up and settles him to sleep on his chest where he'll sleep for an hour or sometimes two.

We can carry on doing this for a while, but not forever, and just wondered when people think is the right time to start getting him to sleep on his own? Probably not yet, I realise, as he's still so small, but i am a routiney kind of person and so need to know when my life is gonna get some sort of structure back to it!

Oh, and we've tried a dummy, he'll keep it in for a couple minutes then spits it out, he doesn't seem that interested in it.

Any advice gratefully received!

I was wondering the same thing so I'm jumping on your thread

Jump away . Glad I'm not the only one!!

If you're talking Controlled Crying then 6 months is the widely accepted absolute minimum; look up Ferber/Chris Green etc.

Trying to coax them into sleeping on own after "a bit" of grizzling is reasonable at younge age.

May I suggest if you are routine junkies that you look at The Gina Ford books? I am not a fan, but they seem to work well for many.

I did do GF for my first ds, but this time round it seems too harsh. He seems too tiny for any of that stuff. I guess I just wondered really when they can start to form bad sleep habits/associations and when they can be encouraged to fall asleep by themselves.

PUPD maybe? I would ignore whinging but never crying. Even tiny babies sometimes want a whinge before going to sleep.

You could look at the Baby Whisperer books instead, then.
Definitely not too young to encourage him to fall asleep on his own, it just depends how firmly you push that. 2-3 minutes of crying before they go off isn't excessive to me, for instance.

I would also recommend the Baby Whisperer for tips.

I started at 6 wks, baby drowsy in cot then hand on tummy, gentle rubbing and soothing shooshing sounds til she was asleep. Never leaving her or taking my hand off her til she was asleep. Did this every bedtime and naps if we were at home.

Didn't always work and if she was getting more frantic than settled I obviously abandoned for that nap and went back to boob or walk in the pram option.

I'd say after 6-8 weeks of doing this consistently she would reliably settle herself to sleep for naps.

Good luck

I do have the baby whisperer somewhere, must dig it out.

Teuchter, that sounds like a long time to get sleep sorted! Thing is he may very well be drowsy in my arms, but the minute i put him down he agitates himself into wide awake. Will have to try the hand/patting etc, but knowing how touchy he is, i don't hold out much hope.

I have let him whinge a bit, but it always escalates very quickly if i don't pick him up.

PUPD - is he not a bit young for this? I think i read somewhere that this agehave no concept of object permanence, so this method is just cruel as they have no way of knowing you'll come back? Thats what i read anyway. If this is true, when is a good time to start it?

Hiya. My ds has just turned 4 months and I did my version of the no cry sleep solution and now my son sleeps much better. Wakes once for a feed at night. My main problem was feeding to sleep. Once we broke this habit I am now able to put him down in his cot awake....so long as he is full, winded and clean nappy he generally grizzles (not cries!) for anywhere between 30 secs and 5 mins then sleeps happily. He sometimes wakes after 30-45 mins but if I'm pretty sure he'll still be tired (and not hungry again) I leave him to grizzle (not cry!) and he generally drops back off. I now know if he doesn't settle himself back down he is either hungry, or wet or has wind. if he does start to cry but when I pick him up he is clearly still tired (eyes still closed/rubbing eyes/yawning etc) I cuddle him back to sleep (which I love) and then try putting him down again. I now sometimes hear him wake in the night...he has a little chatter to himself and then settles himself back. Compared to a few weeks ago this is bliss!! It worked really quickly once we broke the milk = sleep association. Good luck.

I guess it was a long time but I didn't have anything else to do! It paid dividends when I could just chuck get in her cot and leave by 4 months!

PUPD isn't cruel if you don't let them cry. Cuddle, hush, put them down, whinge leave them, cry pick them up and comfort them. Start again.

Try adding music to your routine. I discovered it by accident, and it works so well.

You'll need to find a piece of music (or several pieces) that seems to relax your baby and won't drive you mad. Every time you start the feeding to sleep routine, play that music. Gradually your baby will start to associate that music with feeling sleepy.

When your baby gets a little older and wakes, but doesn't need a feed, just play the music, and you will often find it soothes them back to sleep.

This is a lifesaver when your baby is getting bigger as rocking to sleep becomes back breaking.

Like the idea of music, will try and find something suitable.

And will try PUPD at some point when i'm feeling braver. Def sounds better than cc!

Teuchter, i hear you! Ds1 was an excellent sleeper from pretty early on, bedtimes were always so simple it was one less thing to worry about. Hopefully this one will get better!

In fact, can babies get better at sleeping by themselves, or do they always need some parental intervention??

My dd2 has always been excellent at self settling, due mainly to my inadvertent neglect.

DD1 was only 20 months when dd2 arrived so still needed lots of attention and help. DD2 would whinge, I'd go to get her 5 mins later and she had nodded off.

DD1 needed all manner of cuddles and laying down in the cot, while slowly sliding hand away, only for her eyes to shoot open as I moved away from her upteen times a night. Very wearing and I am sure entirely my own fault.

I can't stomach CC or CIO, and for DD1 she would have just become hysterical anyway so it wouldn't have achieved anything. However, I do know some desperate parents CC has worked for, just not for me.