Bed time is 2am or 3am

[gluttom]

My nearly 8 week old dd will not settle for the night until the early hours 1 being good and 3 am the worst - she then feeds at 7am and sleeps on until 10am

She doesn't self settle but we try to get her down at 8pm for the night but she is up and down like a yo yo- we rock her or she feeds to sleep but she wake shortly after we put her down or sometimes in our arms even before she goes down. It is very frustrating - I would say she dropped off but woke over 10 times last night until she finally went off at 2am - she is still sleeping now

Should I wake her after she stirs for a feed at 7am and make her stay awake for an hour to signal day time instead of letting her feed back to sleep.

I am getting desperate. I have 2 other pre schoolers so I can't catch up on sleep in morning following her pattern.

She is a bad napper - 20ins here and there so I worried to wake her in case she doesn't sleep properly all day. Any advice please

I had one like this, she is only 6months so still very fresh in the memory.

If you are able to devote the time to it, get your bedtime routine, bath, bottle bed, then keep her in her/your room and PUPD until she settles. It should get earlier and earlier as she adjusts to now being in bed, so to speak, and won't be going anywhere until morning. Feed if needed but that put down, comfort if needed but then put down.

I ff'd so dh used to do 8 until 12 (when she settled) I picked up the early hours shift, having been in bed since 8 usually, and he got up with dd1 and left me in bed as long as possible.

With dd2 it suddenly clicked and she goes down like a dream between 6.30 - 7 now. But it seemed a long time coming.

Sorry if I am trying to teach you to suck eggs if this is dc3.

My dd was like this - I'm not sure I can offer much useful advice as I didn't have the pressure of other children to look after, but as she got older she gradually started settling earlier. Bedtime now at 8.5 months is still later than most babies at about 9/9.30pm but she wakes up at 7/7.30 and that seems to suit her (on the rare occasions she's started her night's sleep at 7 she's been raring to go by 5am - not good). We gave up trying to get her to go to bed earlier, it was just too much stress and hassle, and just let her stay up until she looked exhausted at which point she would feed to sleep quickly and sleep quite well for a few hours. Sorry it's not the advice you need, someone with other dcs as well will probably be along soon, but just to let you know it gets better and to offer some sympathy - I can remember all too well the feelings of desperation looking at my wide awake dd at 1am...

We had similar problems with getting our 12 week old DD to settle, though it used to go on all night (and it still takes up to 2 hours to re-settle her after feeds on really bad nights). A friend lent us a prince lionheart bear and we put it on the womb sound, seemed to really help her get off to sleep and because its sound/movement activated it re-starts if she wakes up a bit and sends her off again, reduced parent intervention! Doesn't always work for us but more often than not. Will watch this thread though as I'm interested in other ideas people have!

This is still going on - 1130 last night - i tried to get her to bed at 6 - she had a catnap for 20mins - tried again at 7.30 - another 20mins and then tried until she passed out at 11.30. She is 11 weeks now - we are doing shush pat, rocking standing up jigging (her favorite), nothing just leaving her lying there until she cries, pushing the pram in the front room, feeding more, a bear with soothing noises, warm sheet - everything. I suppose cio or cc is my only option which i am reluctant to do so will have to hope she sorts it our herself. Naps are awful too 30 mins here ad there! She is faulty on the sleep front!

Sorry to hear you're still having this problem, my DS (8 weeks is the same), he's been up now since 12am and still desperate to play! He's got his days and nights a bit mixed-up I think, as he will sleep until about 11am after a 5am and 7am feed. We have had a better routine in the past though, that's the frustrating thing, it just seems to get all out-of-sync so easily and I have no idea how to put it right. I hope you find a solution (please please come back and update if you do!)

As a follower of BW techniques, I just wanted to pop on & say for anyone else reading this, that PUPD is not an appropriate sleep training method for an 8 week old baby - its far too stimulating & shouldn't be used until baby is 4 months old. Instead a more gentle method of sshh/pat can be used, which I see gluttom is already doing.

Also I would advise against CC or CIO - even the experts who developed these techniques say they are not appropriate for babies under 6 months old.

gluttom - how long is she awake inbetween those 20/30min naps during the day? Can you post a typical day's routine for us? I am wondering if she could be overtired - restless sleeping + short 30min naps were always a surefire sign of OT for us. It does also sound like she might still have her days and nights a bit mixed up.

When she wakes after BT, how is she reacting - crying or chatting & wanting to play? Do you treat it as you would with a night waking & see to her in a dimly lit room without making eye contact or communicating with her?

Thanks - I only let her stay awake for 1.5 hrs and then rock her back to sleep so she can have about 4 or 5 short naps a day but I can't extend her naps beyond 45mins. When she wakes after bedtime she is usually smiling and looking for you to interact with her - instead I boob her and try and get her back to sleep with whatever sleep inducing technique I have the energy for - pram pushing usually - we even have a piece of wood to bump the pram over!!! This too shall pass but I am so tired with 2 others too.

I know it's not what you want to hear, but this sounds pretty normal for such a little baby. You are right though - TTSP

Routine starts off ok

8am Wake and feed
930 sleep
1030 wake and feed
1200 sleep
1230 wake
1ish feed and then she is tired and spend most of the afternoon trying to get a long nap. I have tried the baby whisper routine and like it but am thwarted by the short naps.

Are you waking her after these morning naps? If so, try letting her sleep until she's ready to wake up herself

Can i join this thread with sympathy and needing help too! My nearly 8 week old doesn't go to bed till between 10.30 and 1am every night. He has been like this since he was born, least its not 3 am for us any more! I do feel for you gluttom, every night i try to put him down any time between 6 and 8 depending on what time he woke up in the late afternoon, but he likes to nap in the evening and then just cry till he's exhausted, then he will get over it and be smiley before he settles down! Its driving me crazy, i try to limit his sleep in the day but he gets so tired from the night before and you cant wake him. I try again each day to limit his sleep and try for a little routine. Ive read the (gf ford book, well i skipped through it and liked the chart where they get up at 7am, nap at 9am, lunchtime sleep at 12 till 2ish, nap at 4 till 5, then bed at 7pm, i hate to say this but that makes sense, obviously noting when baby is tired to adjust this!) But why doesn't my baby go to bed at night? Ive tried the theory where if they sleep well in the day then they will sleep at night? He just used to cry all night, that's a little bit better some nights but just doesn't go to bed! I rock, sing, walk the rooms, try to leave him if hes awake/dozy, bouncy chair, swing etc. He also has silent reflux so sometimes they gagging and choking startles him and then he cries after i have just settled him.

No way would I wake her - she wakes herself.

I hate to say it but unfortunately 45min naps are pretty common between 3-6 months - its a developmental thing - their little brains have worked on establishing a longer stretch of sleep at night in the first 3 months, & then they work on daytime sleep from 3-6months, after which longer naps will usually follow.

However, 45min naps can also be a sign of being undertired i.e. tired enough to fall asleep but not tired enough to sleep for longer than 1 sleep cycle.

Your routine says she is awake for 1.5hrs, does a 45min-1hr nap, then she is awake another 1.5hrs, and she does a 30min nap. Do you keep her awake for 1.5hrs regardless of how long she naps for?

To me that first nap may be undertired, and because she is then kept up for a full 1.5hrs before her next nap, she is overtired & so only sleeps 30mins, & this is why she is then tired all afternoon.

Could you try extending that awake period before the AM nap just by 5-10mins no more, and see whether that helps her sleep a little longer? It may work, but may not due to the developmental reasons above. If you like BW you could always try wake to sleep or HTTJ to try & get her past the 45min mark.

Another thing to note is that if she does do a short nap, I would put her down for her next nap a little earlier as she will be more tired. By doing this you might find she sleeps a little better, therefore avoiding overtiredness in the afternoon.

How is she sleeping at nights now - has that issue resolved itself?

freeangel - hope some of this helps you too. Personally I wouldn't limit the amount of daysleep for a baby of 8 weeks old. He needs his sleep in order to develop healthily, and being unsettled/waking at night is more likely to be down to overtiredness/health issues (silent reflux)/not knowing how to settle to sleep independently than not being tired enough. Is he on meds for the reflux? The GF routine provides excellent structure for his day although opinion from mums I know is that their babies needed a little more sleep than she recommends so they would put down when baby was tired but wake at the suggested timings to keep the routine on track. HTH.xx

Thanks omama i gave up trying to limit his sleep. No hes not on meds as ive been told he will grow out of it as long as he doesnt cry when feeding! Not much help. I thought i could follow her chart but Max only sleeps when he wants not when i do!

1.5 hours of being awake sounds too long.
With DS, we had to massively reduce his awake time in the day as he was a 3am bedtime baby and got massively overtired very easily but not obviously.

First thing was to use the sling for day naps. His morning nap he'd be ready to nap after 45 mins. As the day went on, he could tolerate up to 2 hours but the morning was always shorter.

Tired signs were subtle and easily missed - so I'd stick him on the sling after he'd been awake for 30-40 mins and go for a walk. He'd fall asleep if he needed to - a week or so of doing this, he fell into a routine.

Also bedtime had to be a simple routine and his last nap of the day had to be no later than ~2 hours of the target bedtime (so awake by 5 for a 7 bedtime).

DS also had silent reflux so was harder to switch off and sleep. Plenty of fresh air helped - sometimes I'd rock him by an open window if it was too late. A dummy also helped.

freeangel - I'd go back to your GP IIWM. Yes he will grow out of it, but if he is unsettled at night/when laying flat, then he could be in pain. Silent reflux is no spitting up, but acid rising in the throat which can be very painful for LO's. Its not really fair of your GP to expect him to suffer is it?

Grrrr it really gets me on my soap box. I had the same ignorance when I went in with my son about his reflux plus rashes plus eczema plus cradle cap at 2 months old & was told same i.e. he'll grow out of it. I pleaded with GP for infant Gaviscon at 4 months, but he continued to be miserable, frequently sick, I lived with it for months with everyone telling me 'he's just a baby who cries a lot' - erm No! Eventually I went back to GP at 7 months old & said I can't take any more of this - cried & told him I was utterly depressed, and he finally gave me some dairy free prescription formula. Turns out my son has milk protein intolerance & as soon as dairy removed from his diet he is like a different baby.

Sorry I know off topic but a rant at medical professionals who live in the dark ages & who don't believe in treating things like reflux. Cruelty IMO.

Hi gluttom
Did you manage to find a solution?

We are having exactly the same prob with our ds (4mo). Daytime naps are every 1.5-2h (v difficult to get him to sleep before that) and he sleeps for 30 mins unless he goes out in the buggie when he goes down for 3h. (we don't wake him from his naps) At night, we have his bath time routine, then we will be feeding, rocking, White noising til he goes down properly between midnight and 1am. His naps during this time last 5-30 mins. his bedtime used to be quite late (10-11) cos of the colic. We've tried moving his bedtime forward in stages to 8 but it makes no difference to when he finally goes to sleep. I don't know what to do - last night dh took him out in the car in the end as a last resort....

Hi, we didn't really solve the problem - she just changed shortly after Xmas and started sleeping 8-1am, having a feed at 1am and then 4, a little feed at 5 and up at 8. This was good for a few weeks but now she is still settling (often still needs a resettle after 1 sleep cycle 30-45 mins) but waking at 11,2 and 5. She can manage 1-5-2hrs awake and has about 3-4 short (45 min) naps a day with a long one thrown in randomly every few days! So although it is better I'm not sure how it got better. We still rick her to sleep in our arms though. Sorry not much help but hope it sorts out soon.

Good to know there's hope! I guess we'll just keep on trying! Last night he did go down at 11, which was good. Rockings starting to lose it's magic with him tho, so we're thinking of following the advice on here ( m.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps?pg=1&order=). Would like to wait a bit longer really but might have no choice if rocking really does stop working.

Good luck!

Good to know there's hope! I guess we'll just keep on trying! Last night he did go down at 11, which was good. Rockings starting to lose it's magic with him tho, so we're thinking of following the advice on here ( m.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1394888-What-worked-for-us-Hope-this-helps?pg=1&order=). Would like to wait a bit longer really but might have no choice if rocking really does stop working.

Good luck!