baby warrior who fights sleep .... help !

[cords]

can anyone relate to my problem ! I am desperate for advice on my 2 month old. I am trying to follow Gina's routine and am finding it has helped enormously in adding structure to my life.... However I have a gorgeous daughther who simply cannot get to sleep by herself. Nighttime is easiest as she is tired by then and is fed pretty much till she sleeps. However the day naps are a struggle each day. She gets tired, yawns, rubs her eyes and I KNOW she needs a nap. However, when put down (or if she is already down )then she screams and whinges. I am managing to get her to sleep by rocking the chair and shhhhh ing her but she needs constant attentin during nap to make sure she even does half an hour ! Lunchtime naps are a major pain. She just wakes every 20 mins or so after being put down eventually by rocking again. I know I have a baby with major bad habits ...
Has anyone had a similar problem and has anyone got words of comfort for me !!!!!
ALso. is two months old too young for controlled crying ! ??? And how do you do it for day naps ?

Hope someone can help !

Tks !!!

2 months is far too young for controlled crying - I wouldnt worry If she cant get to sleep alone i would worry about that at 6 motnhs or so

My baby was the same with 20 mins - they grow out of it - leave her to cry for 5 mins or so.. lookat your watch as it seems to go on and on and then if need be cuddle her - she is soooooooooooooo small still!

Hi cords. My ds did exactly the same thing! I think partly he grew out of it, but we also tried the 2-hour rule, i.e. once he'd been up for one and a half to two hours, we'd put him in his cot and see if he went to sleep by himself. Sometimes he did, and now he does most of the time.
He still needs the occasional rock to sleep, but I think that's normal.
Hope it gets better soon; it's really frustrating isn't it?

I don't think you have a baby with bad habits and to be honest I don't think that's a very helpful way to look at it - it can make you feel resentful or as it it's your fault. She will change so much you won't believe it in the next few weeks and months. Are you putting her down two hours after she wakes up? Have you tried a dummy? Taking her for a walk at naptime to help her drift off?

DD didn't sleep much during the day as she slept well at night. I went out in desperation one day and got one of those battery operated swings. It worked a treat and she'd sleep for an hour to hour and a half, rather than 10 mins. DS (7 weeks is gently rocking at the very moment!)

tks for the replies !
it is comforting to find that you all do not recommend controlled crying .. Interestingly I went for her 2 month check up and the paedatrician also is against cc , and he has suggested that I give the medication for reflux two weeks trial to make sure that she is really not in discomfort before putting her through the ordeal/(i tried the medication for 4 days only previously ) She does show some signs of having mild reflux.
If you do not practice cc though, how do they learn to sleep in the cot ? During the day naps there is no way she will do that. I must admit that taking her out in her pushchair does the trick most of the time ...but in Hong Kong, it is not the easiest of tasks (!)

Codswallop ... did your baby also have the same problem and did you find the baby grew out of it ???

As for the rocking chair ...hmmm ...tempted but do not want to add more hurdles to my intented task.

aloha ... you are right and I have been blaming myself for her having these problems ... I have heard many mothers say to me that at 3 months they do suddenly become different babies ... I hope that is the case . Dummy works but only to quieten her ...she knows that it is not the real thing and eventually spits it out and becomes more angry.

Cords, I have never done controlled crying, and while I would have to admit that my DS is not the most disciplined of sleepers, he DID learn to sleep in his cot, and now stays in his bed, and has since 20 months (but see my problems on the Clocks Back thread!!!) I just always tried to keep bedtimes very calm and enjoyable, had a very definite routine, put him in his cot when very very sleepy, stayed with him a while, singing etc. 2 months is still tiny: we used to have a nap at the same time and let DS sleep on our chests at that age (tho' I think there is official advice against that re overheating them / SIDS risk). He just wanted to be held, all the time, until he was about 4 months. Will she sleep in a sling against your chest while you do jobs or go outside?

2 months is too young for controlled crying IMO but some babies seem to need to cry for a few minutes before they fall asleep, especially if they are very tired /over tired. I would leave your dd for a few mins - she may fall asleep on her own, if not go in, cuddle, feed, rock, whatever until she is on the verge of falling asleep, but is not asleep, then leave again. Repeat until she falls asleep on her own. She'll get the hang of it quickly because she's so young and won't need as much comfort as time goes on. The important thing is to let her fall asleep on her own.

Try to keep in mind that going to bed is not a bad thing for a little person. If you are tired what could be nicer than lying down quietly in a lovely comfy cot with a full tum and a clean bum?

Hi Cords - you just have to look at my postings on mumsnet to see that a baby can just change. I'm not saying my dd is a perfect sleeper - far from it, but she now naps well and can go to sleep. Keep giving her the opportunity and one day she just will! My dd likes shouting at a toy for BIT, BUT APART FROM COLDS ETC PUTS HERSELF TO SLEEP WITH THE MINIMUM OF WHINGING (AND SHE USED TO BE A NIGHTMARE)

I do remember 2 months being difficult, and 3 being a lot better. One thing that did help was putting one of my smelly t-shirts over her, you could try that.
Good luck - that'll get better (some other worry will probably come to replec it, but that's babies for you!)

Hi cords, Ohmigod , my 7wk old DD is the same & oooh so frustrating isnt it.Just look at my thread "does any one know how to get night nurse"!!!!!!!I freaked out a tad over the weekend hence my nutty plee, but bless her she is my cutie pie. I also worried that I was creating a rod for my own back. I also have to cuddle her to sleep, but for the last 2-3 wks she has been quite ill so my Tracey Hogg routine had to go bye bye for a while. In the last 48hrs she has started getting herself off for morning naps & couldnt believe it!!! I am glad everyone has mentioned that cc is not right yet ,as DH thought I should be doing it. So that told him.

Let me know in a few weeks if it gets better, you knever know , youll be giving us tips on sleep.

DD loves sleeping in a sling ... but worries me that it will instill bad habits. However, if she is overtired and whingy , then I take her in the sling at naptimes.

I am beginning to do as you advice Blu and settle her till almost passed out but placce her in cot and continue the settling when she ios down .... This only works during the evening and nights though ..although now morning nap time, I rock her on chair until she falls asleep. However, llike just now ... she has 10 mins or so blasts before waking herself up again . At least she rested !

What exactly is the Tracy Hogg routine ? I know EASY but what times ? How many feeds does your DD do in a day MELSY ?

In 24 hr period she does 6 : 7,11,3,7,11,3. & give 1/2 hr leway between each one so sometimes 6:30, 11:00 etc.
The Tracey Hogg routine is the EASY one , plus tips from book on how too understand crying etc with SLOW!!! All in her book , have u got it???Becarollo & I have a thread on her under parenting.

I can see u were up early today on here!!!!

ah ... eaarly for you in teh UK .. I am in Hong Kong !

Cords, If your baby loves it in the sling, why not go with it? (as long as you have a comfortable one and you are ok with the weight!) My DP loved having our DS in a sling, too, and it was a great way for him to bond (and gave my back a rest).
I think that what makes perfect motherhood is being able to look after your own little one in a way that springs from your own personality, so it may be that you do have a very strong need for a sense of order. On the other hand it is very easy to feel 'you're not doing it right' and to worry about 'bad habits' if you are feeling a comparison with other people's apparantly orderley and regulated babies. I found this to begin with, and some of my nearest and dearest co-new-mums were following systems which I simply didn't feel belonged to me, and I sometimes felt as if i wasn't doing things 'properly'. They also innundated me with advice which was often, actually, unwanted. I will tread as carefully as I can here, but I think that since parents have been offered the idea of the GF based approach, and it is currently so successful and appreciated by people, it can be harder to feel you are doing ok by just going with your own flow, or adopting a different philosophy. This is just my personal hunch about what you are going through, based on your worry about 'bad habits'...

Help! My year old baby girl has become a nightmare at bed time. She just does not want to go to bed. She slept in her cot until about amonth ago and we thought she was sorted as regards sleep. She began crying as soon as we went to put her into the cot and refused to lie down bawling her head off. We decided to try letting her fall asleep on the bed with one or other of us and then transfer her to the cot. We (naively) thought that this was the answer - initially this took a stressfree 10 mins v's our pathetic attempt at controlled crying. The 10 mins increased every night and now she wont go to sleep in the bed and was still up last night at midnight (having slept for just an hour that morning). I cannot do the cc - i find it totally barbaric but we cant continue like this.Both of us work full time and are turning into zombies. I feel I have done it all wrong - I dont want a spoiled child but I really cant listen to the bawling. Any advice - please.

one good day and one bad seems to be the most accurate for me ... previoous night, DD slept from 10:30 - 5:15 am !!!! I did not know what had happened and checked all clocks in the flat. But then last night she woke at 1:30, then 3:45 then 6am ... each time I can only pacify her with the breast ... ahhhh ! She spits out the dummy each and every time.

GF is definitely causing me problems ...I am following her basic feeding routine which I find does work ... thing is that she seems to assume all babies are fantastic sleepers ! And if not then they jolly well should be ! I have just let DD sleep till 8am as I needed the xtra doze to allow me to stay awake for the next few hours ....s*d it !

Thing is that I know that bad habits are harder to break once set and so even though I am inclined to go with the flow as well and hope she grows out of it, I am afraid that it will be adding more hard work down the road.

Each day is becoming a chore and I feel awful for thinking that . I have been told cranial massage is very useful for babies that do not settle ... hmm ... may call and find out abt it as an alternative method as I am begining to lose hope .

Buy a wind up "ticking" clock (can get really cheap from somewhere like Woolworths, Argos etc) V Important: make sure you can hear the tick! Leave somewhere close to baby (not forgetting to wind it up) and leave baby. The sound of ticking will fascinate her and hopefully lull her to sleep. Other V Important Note: if the ticking stops baby will probably wake up!!!!!!
This seriously worked with my dd as a baby and I recommended it to a friend whose 11 year old couldn't sleep and it worked like a dream. zzzzzz

Cords - I mentioned the times I do to just show u how we r TRYING to structure the day. Please dont think that we r finding it easy.I agree with u, GF & TH all seem to assume that our baby's sleep & eat really well. HAH HAH. We cant always follow the times & like u if up half the night 3-4 times I will bring her into our bed and we sleep way past "feed time"!!!!. Although I may have given (or attempted) more bottles than ususal to calm her. Not that she takes it, normally 1oz and falls asleep, to then wake 1hr or 1/2 hr later and screams blue murder. When we need her to be awake to feed she sleeps & when we need her to sleep she would stay up all day!!!

Sorry didnt know u were in HONG KONG! So u may not get this few a few hrs??.

you guys are 8 hrs behind so when you are up it is my afternoon ....
its funny with my DD as taking her into my bed wld not really sooth her at all ! I have tried ! She needs to be picked up and held upright ... Melsy, yr feed times are pretty much what GF suggests as well ... I must admit that that part ofmher routine does seem logical . How many times a night does yr DD wake ? Also, I presume that this is yr first ?

I like the idea of the clock ... I tend to have to shhh shhh sshhhhh like a mad woman to calm her under normal circumstances .

Cords - she will generally wake up for 3:00am feed go back to bed 4:00am and then promplty wake up screaming every half hr from then on till I feed her at 7:00!!!! Sometimes we get her back to sleep at 9:00 for half hr if I am lucky. The only time she will sleep longer from 4:00 am is if she comes into our bed!!!Then I can keep her asleep till 7:00am & gives me more sleep rather than going in and out of her nursery.