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Original poster

Any alternatives to CC?

45 replies

Ruth1234 · 17/11/2011 21:11

DD, 14 months, has never been a great sleeper but it's worse at the moment. I have no problem getting her to sleep, but the second I leave her room she stands up and starts screaming. I go back in, lay her back down, she goes to sleep again... I leave the room and cue the crying again. We had two hours of this last night. Tonight my DH have spent an hour between us going in and out and in and out. We are shattered and we have given up now and she is screaming by herself up in her room. I feel dreadful and terribly guilty.

We don't want to leave her to cry herself to sleep but we have had two weeks of this now. Should we leave her to figure out how to go to sleep by herself or is there a happier alternative?

OP posts:
HalleysWaitress · 20/11/2011 22:11

also....i did find when dd was younger that i had to keep going with her day time naps if she struggled at night. if she had a bad couple of nights i used to keep her in for a day and play at home and make sure she got a decent nap in the day (or several when she was smaller) for a couple of days - this seemed to really help a lot at night. it killed me as i like to be buzzing aorund out and about seeing people but it always worked. i still do it now with dd who is 2 now and then if she gets a bit unsettled - we stay in and hang out, watch a bit too much cbeebies and do nothing too energetic - works a treat

mauwmauw · 20/11/2011 22:15

Oh right I understand now she has never cried it out not even at 3am! The moment I knew she was genuinely crying I would comfort her. Maybe i'm not being clear but I never let my baby cio I let her protest until she fell asleep. That's not the same thing!

niceday · 21/11/2011 20:34

Mauwmauw, that sounds interesting, though shame my never protested whatever I tried. He always cried to be comforted (and would calm down instantly) once I'm back. I guess each baby needs its own method then.

mnistooaddictive · 21/11/2011 20:47

I have never heard of any dangers of CIO. The raised cortisol thing us for prolonged crying such as neglected children or those babies in Romanian orphanages not babies being left to cry for a few nights.

HalleysWaitress · 21/11/2011 21:26

sids and other accidental deaths of infants. the raised cortisol is not exclusive to romanian orphanages. see 'why love matters' and 'what every parent needs to know'

mnistooaddictive · 21/11/2011 21:44

I have read scientufic research on the cortisol thing. It categorically stated it is not caused by a few nights crying to sleep. It is prolonged and frequent being left to cry. What do these book say that differs to that? I know there is a lot of fear and hearsay around but an genuinely interested in any research that shows differently.

butternut234 · 22/11/2011 04:43

Would really recommend not using the TH book mentioned above. That's all I'm going to say about that, though I could go on and on and on :)

It IS possible to get a toddler to sleep GENTLY without resorting to cry it out / cc (and yes, those that claim not to be versions of cc too).

My 15 month old fed to sleep every hour and a half for months but last night he went to sleep in his cot by himself without a murmur (with us in room too) and slept hours before waking up...

I recommend the no cry sleep solution for toddlers and preschoolers / sleepless in america / and also online, the baby sleep site which does sleep plans but you can ask for a very very gentle i won't leave the room approach .

We followed all the above but the main thing was my husband telling him a story while he fell asleep lying next to him, gradually getting less and less and giving him a toy in his cot that he now snuggles down with when we explain to him what we want him to do - don't underestimate how much they can understand at this age.

HalleysWaitress · 22/11/2011 08:52

Link please for research about cortisol?

mnistooaddictive · 22/11/2011 09:42

I asked for yours first! But as I don't want to disappoint here is a summary of research. Can you now answer my question? Where is the research that says the opposite?

nethunsreject · 22/11/2011 09:47

Tizzie Hall encourages people to leave their babies to scream themselves to sleep. She also contravenes FSIDs recommendations. All to sell her 'special' products and books. She makes GF look kind hearted and gentle. Wink

No Cry Sleep Solution is great.

bankholiday · 22/11/2011 12:59

mnistooaddictive, the article you linked does not give any clear evidence that CIO is NOT damaging. Fair enough, there is no evidence that "CIO crying" damages the brain, but equally there is no research to say for sure that it doesn't. And "extensive" crying surely means different things for different babies, while some may just grizzle for a few minutes, some others cry until they're sick.

Also, most parents who resort to CIO then say their babies are happy and haven't been affected. I don't think, however, that the effects are always dramatic and short-term, surely they can be subtle and not show until later in life.

mnistooaddictive · 22/11/2011 18:30

I have just read that and if says the same thing. "could be harmful"
Repeated crying such as in neglected children, routinely left to cry. Etc.
This suggests that 3 nights of crying for 15 mins is not proved to have any damaging effects. It may that is true, but science gas not shown that. We need to be very clear about what science does actually say.

mnistooaddictive · 22/11/2011 18:34

I found it difficult to see the second one as on my phone, but there is no evidence cc is harmful, just a suggestion that more research needs to be done.

HalleysWaitress · 22/11/2011 19:01

www.evolutionaryparenting.com/?p=360this is also v useful

HalleysWaitress · 22/11/2011 19:08

And www.naturalchild.org/guest/linda_folden_palmer2.htmlthis.
Id be curious to see evidence of positive effects on the baby of sleep training.

I find it hard to be sympathetic to those who promote cc. I have avoided doing it for 2 years largely on my own as exh works away for weeks at a time. Having patience for what seems like hours every night is hard work but ignoring my distressed baby never felt like something I could justify

Cinquefoil · 22/11/2011 19:23

I disagree with both cc and cio. Intuitively, I feel they do harm, but I doubt that that could ever be shown through research - there are way too many variables.

However, it's not just about the consequences. For me, what babies are needing/wanting when they demand attention in the night seems perfectly reasonable, understandable and fair enough. Seems a bit cruel and unjustifiable to withhold it.

mnistooaddictive · 23/11/2011 08:26

I have no problem with that cinque. I have a problem with parents who make different choices being told that scientific evidence shows they are harming their baby.
There are also a lot of wrong myths about cc. I used it when putting fd1 to bed. She was fed etc but often struggling to settle due to overtired. She cried for 7 mins the first time, and less afterwards. I never left her to cry repeatedly in the night. It works in 3 nights.

Repeatedly leaving your bAby to cry for prolonged crying is not cc or CIO, it is ignoring your baby's needs.

Gherkinsmummy · 23/11/2011 11:09

Sorry to jump in here, I'm very interested in this debate as CC/CIO have become so normal.

Seems to me that as a parent you do a risk/benefit analysis, mnistooaddictive. So you feel that the benefits outweigh the risks, and if your baby only cried for seven minutes, I can see how that would be ok for you. But you say 'Repeatedly leaving your baby to cry for prolonged crying is not cc or CIO, it is ignoring your baby's needs.' - I've read CIO advice that says to leave your baby crying for an hour! How is that not ignoring your baby's needs? What about the bond of trust that is broken when your baby cries for you and you don't come? What are you teaching the baby about the world? Its not just about the cortisol levels. Its about the baby learning to shut down, even becoming depressed, because they only have one way to communicate and are being ignored.

www.drmomma.org/2009/12/cons-of-controlled-crying-cio.html

mnistooaddictive · 23/11/2011 13:34

I don't know the answer to that, I am not an expert and would not use CIO personally as I do not think it is fair to leave a baby that long. At least with cc you return every 5 mins to reassure them. I guess you may leave them for an hour the first time but it shouldn't be a regular thing. When I hear of baby's crying for hours repeatedly in the name of cc that makes my heartbreak because it isn't cc. It should only take a few nights to 'work' so if it goes on and on something is wrong and the baby needs attention.
I would never recommend anyone to sleep train their child in any particular way or even to sleep train at all. It is a personal decision and we all do things differently. I do know lots of people though, who rocked or cosleep with babies as a short term measure but by the time the child was 18 months they were still sleeping baggy and they then felt the need to sleep train. It may have been easier, and prevented many difficult nights and fleet deprived days to have done it earlier. We all make out own choices though and they did their own choice.

My only point is it is wrong to claim science had proved leaving your baby to cry causes harm as it has not.
That doesn't mean you have to leave them to cry, butvyou ate not a monster if you do.

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