5mo not sleeping...no idea what else to try...at wits end :o(

[misspiggy17]

Hello, the parenting people suggested I post over here for advice so here goes!

I'm a first time mum to a 5mo. I am breastfeeding. During the day he is on a 4 hourly feeding schedule, has 2 naps a day and has started solids (3 small meals as in a couple of teaspoons alongside his milk at each meal). Putting him to bed is fine, he has his bedtime routine and sometimes he falls asleep at the breast, sometimes not but if he's put in his cot awake or not he dozes off without too much fuss. Sounds like an angel...

During the night the minimum number of times he has gotten up is twice (that was a few weeks ago) but each night it ranges from 3 - 6 times a night. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the number of times - we can do the same schedule, put him in the same bedtime clothes, same temperature in the room and one night it will be 3 awakenings, the next 6. DS has been breastfed and took a bottle early on but when he excitement of DS wore off, so did people to feed him from the bottle and he hasn't had a bottle for at least two months now and wont take one. We're trying from a cup but with no joy.

Because he wont take a bottle, no-one else can take him for a night. My DH has just recently started trying to rock DS to sleep instead of offering him the breast each time he wakes but this was only after a huge argument as I haven't had a stint of more than 4h sleep in 5 months. DH has tried 3 times and passed DS back to me each time to send him to sleep as he has no success. I dont know what else to try as dont seem to be getting any help from any other area. I'm not against formula, and have tried it but he wont take the bottle or cup which leaves me resorting to the boob. He's too young to sleep train but this past weekend I spent the whole thing crying because I'm just so exhausted.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I genuinely have no idea what to do. My HVs are no help and have said he's just 'one of those babies' and I have to work with him, the problem is on so little sleep I cant work with him anymore.

DD the same age, really understand what you are going through! She is also BF and I am the only one to settle her at night. She started off really well, then noticeably hit the 4 month sleep regression alongside teething - it was awful tbh. Then got better at night, now up every hour or so again! This seems to explain why my DD 'gets worse' at sleep sometimes, and it helps me to know it is just a phase.

It sounds like you are doing a great job with him, and his evening routine sounds lovely and you may eventually get to the point where that predictability settles him well for longer periods. Persevere with the bottle for one of his daytime feeds - don't give up on that, it will be worth it! The more gentle sleep encouragement in this book may also suit you - when DD isn't going through a phase they have worked really well with her (she has slept through a couple of times, and self settles each bedtime, plus she no longer feeds through the night - since about a month) apart from during these phases. Generally she may stir a couple of times but hand on tummy and she is back off to sleep in seconds).

I do think, and never thought it would be so, that it does generally always fall to the mum to do the night-times...Hope you feel better after having a good cry! Take care x

I dunno if you've tried just co-sleeping for a bit, breast feeding on demand through the night (I fed lying down and dozing, so hardly woke up), and trying a big cluster feed before bedtime. DD has always woken up through the night up until recently, no matter what I did, and focusing on my own coping through the night really helped.

Not sure I can help but can certainly empathise - DS2 is 23 weeks and an awful sleeper. Will only go around 3 hours at the beginning of the night, and then from 11ish is waking every 1.5/2 hours. It's just awful. Most nights I give up around 1/2 ish and bring him into bed with me because at least I can then lie down and doze while he's feeding.

I can totally see why you'd like to get him to take a bottle/cup to give you a break from feeding, but please don't think that formula is a magic solution to sleeping - I mix feed and it makes no difference to his sleep if he's had breast or bottle.

A couple of things to think about - is he feeding every 4 hours on demand? Could you feed him more during the day to try and fill him up a bit before bed? How long are his naps? Good day time sleep should help with night time sleep as if they're overtired they can be more unsettled - still battling with this one myself!

Otherwise just remember that he'll grow out of it and things will get better, really. Not much consolation at 3am I know, but honestly it will pass. That said, I'm taking DS2 to see an osteopath on thursday to see if she can do something magical to make him sleep!

Hi, firstly poor you:(. I found that expressing a bottle of half breast milk and half formula really worked for my dd. My dh gave her this at the 7oclock feed so that she didn't start looking for me to bf her. This was the thing that helped her sleep thru. Also not sure the size of you baby but do you think it is worth starting solid? Definitely worth asking your doc good luck xx

My DD was similar to this. Friends used to moan that their dc were up at x & y times in the night. DD had zero pattern. Unfortunately she just grew out of it so I'm really sorry I can't give constructive night time advice. Sorry, did you say you'd tried co sleeping? I wish I'd given that a shot and will with dc2.

But I would second the advice about more frequent feeding in the day. Four hourly is a big gap for an ebf baby. DD rarely went as much as three hours in the day, but my BFing friends fed at least every three hours or sooner if baby wanted. Maybe if you get more calories in in the day you'll get better sleep at night. Surely worth a shot!

Hope you get more sleep soon.

DD at 5 months is pretty much the same. She is bf on demand but she is less interested during the day, eats a lot in the evening and snacks through-out the night. On a really good night she might manage 5 hours before she starts eating every hour, but some nights she will only go 2 hours.

I co-sleep and feed her while I doze. I don't see how I could survive otherwise to be honest.

Just another thought about bottles. Will he not take it at all, does he try and then spit it out, or what? The reason I ask is that DS2 has been having a bottle most days since 2 weeks, but at around 4 months I tried to switch to the no2 teats which are meant to be from 3 months, and he hated them and would just scream. I think the flow was too fast for him compared with bf. So until a couple of weeks ago we were still using the newborn no1 teats. Maybe worth trying a few different sizes/shapes to see if there's something he prefers? Also maybe try getting DH to give him the bottle/cup while you are elsewhere so he's not expecting to be bf.

Hi my DS now 6 months is very similar, over the weekend he set a new record of being up 7 times on Friday & 8 on saturday, he went into his own room on Sunday and there has been a small improvement.

Don't really have any major advice, but I am currently reading 'no cry sleep solution' which is a suitable method for babies this age. I would also suggest upping the daytime feeds as he may genuinely be hungry. Also DS is mostly BF but has a bottle of formula pre-bed and it makes no difference to how long he sleeps.

No solution from me but I just wanted to say that my 17 week old dd follows the same pattern as your ds.

We introduced formula prior to bedtime and I can say that it has made no difference to the sleep whatsoever. Last night she had 9 ounces then 8 ounces of formula at 8pm and 1030pm and still woke at 12, 3, 5 and 6.

Last night we moved her into her own room thinking this would improve the sleep, but it made it worse.

I have found that she can feed on me up to 5 times each night, she feeds for 10 mins then goes back down but she never seems full really

Keep going, hopefully it will improve soon

We have a 30 week old (7 month- aaarghhh!) ebf (save that she has her 5pm bottle of formula and the other 5 within a 24 hours period are boobie) who still doesn't sleep through consistently. Some nights we get 11 hours and the next 3 or 4 nights she'll be up x 2 in the night with awaking taking up to 1.5 hours to finally settle. Its soooooooo tiring. I don't have the answer at all but did have the same problem with bottle.

I know we're all very intelligent here but have you tried:

• all sorts of bottles and teats
• trying at a time when baby isn't tired
• getting someone else to feed with bottle
• sitting your son in a bouncy or reclined highchair to make it totally different from boobie
• singing or making the whole experience jolly
• warming the teat by pouring warm water and warming milk
• trying expressed milk in a bottle
• trying different types of formula
• trying in a darkened room

Our DD was hysterical when we tried to reintroduce when she was 13 weeks (we too had used bottle of breast milk in very early days and then ran out of steam with the whole sterilising and expressing malarky) as her last feed before bed. We left it for a week and then I tried it during the day and would break off in the middle of a boobie feed to try the bottle. If she got too upset, then I'd leave it. I'd work up the period of time I'd try it for each day from say 5 to 15 mins. It took us about 2 weeks after leaving it for a week to get the bottle established.

We still use bf as a last resort when we have bo energy to try to settle our DD in the middle of the night. After 3 nights of shitty sleep, we need to do it for our sanity and strangely, I don't think we are reinforcing that "wake up = a feed and its a habit" as some nights she peacefully sleeps through and others she doesn't. I don't actually know what we're going to do about our sleep issues!!

I personally don't think formula meant better sleep for our DD either.

As for what you can do, please don't feel like you're doing anything wrong!! It is so tough when you hear about other babies sleeping through. Feeding in the night is tiring and maybe continue this for another week or so and tackle the wakings again with the resolve to not feed and resettle.

As an interim measure, could you have a rule of no night feeds until at least 7 hours after you originally put your DS down?

Could you take turns to resettle or so it as a team so to give moral support?

Have you read the no cry sleep solution?

Keep us posted me dear!

Sorry, I meant feeding in the night is tiring but trying to resettle without a feed is even more exhausting!!

Hello - sorry for delay replying! Had my brother's 8 month old and 3 year old staying til yesterday = even less sleep!!!

Bought the no cry sleep solution following recommendations on here and started to read it yesterday so am starting the nap logs today!

We keep trying to get him to sleep without feeding every time in the night. We've tried this 3 times but end up giving up after 1.5h of crying each time. So in theory we are up for going a period of time after him going down before feeding him again but in practice this wont work unless we should just keep going past the 1.5h? E.g. he went down at 6.45 yesterday and then woke at 9.15. DH tried to settle without booby but at 10.45 I ended up feeding him. But he only feeds for max 5 mins and is out again. The reason we haven't gone past 1.5h is that he is just so upset at this point - tears everywhere and heavy sobbing that I just cant see it ever really working? Maybe I'm just being a soft mum?

Thank you for all your suggestions Ribeno! We've tried most of them but are having a go at feeding in his reclining seat so it's different to the boobie - not tried that one! We've let him play with the bottle lots so he's familiar with it. He puts it in his mouth fine and likes a good chew on it. He sucks some milk out and will swallow a tiny bit (we're talking about a quarter of an ounce max) but then spits the rest out. We've tried formula and breast milk but it's the same thing with both - like he's saying he knows milk is in there but he doesn't want to drink it that way thank you very much. Today we gave him a little bit of booby milk at lunch time as I was worried about his fluid intake but apart from his first morning and last evening feed, we've just persevered with the bottle all day - he has only drunk one ounce out of it all day! He is on 3 meals a day now (at the direction of the HV) so he is getting food but not fluid.

We didn't think introducing formula would help with sleep (we tried that at 8 weeks and gave up after 10 days as he was so constipated with it) but it was more to be a little more flexible with who puts him to bed. Also, with the lack of sleep and the stress of it all (multiple arguments with DH), I'm finding my milk production is v low so am worried I'm drying up in which case he'll have to have formula!

We have a spare room that I could co-sleep in but we were told not to do this as it would create a rod for our own backs later on so now am confused what to do! DH has said he will take monitor tonight and try and get him to sleep without feeding but I know it's not going to work already so wonder if it's worth us having DS crying so much.

DH would also like to talk about WHEN we have the next one....ermmmmmmmmm....

XXX

Please keep me informed and good luck ! I'm going crazy, in pretty much the same boat! Am up from four each day and often not much sleep before that! Really hoping this is the night I get a bit more sleep!

I tried co sleeping for two nights, no difference at all.

Really feel for you!

Update!!

Started stuffing him even more - two nights ago he woke just once. Repeated routine exactly yesterday and he woke twice last night. Will see if we can keep it up. Starting him on a little potato to go with his chicken and veg at teatime to have some more slow burning food in his belly. Will try it at lunch first in case gives him bellyache though...

Waking once and twice is a HUGE improvement though!

For others in same boat, I gave him 5 ice cubes worth of fruit with two teaspoons baby rice for breakfast. For lunch he had half a mini tub of muller rice followed by half a yoghurt. For dinner he had 3 ice cubes of vegetables with about 1 - 2 ice cubes' worth of chicken followed by 2 ice cubes of pear to avoid constipation. We'd been told to go v slowly with giving him solids to avoid bellyache but am wondering if his wakings were just hunger now! He is only 5.5 months' old so don't want to go overboard!!

XXX

PS only solution given by health visitor last week was to make him cry it out. Am glad didn't listen to her and am trying other things!! She doesn't want to go OTT with solids but is more than happy to let him sob his little heart out.

XX

Hi Miss Piggy, glad you are seeing some improvement.

Is he still waking once or twice only and is he very upset when he wakes up?

What have you been doing to settle him?

I think it sounds like you're doing a fine job with the meals. Maybe he was feeling a bit empty. We're still only on breakfast and late lunch at maybe 4pm ish.

Weaning... hmmm. I feel like we spend so much time preparing, eating and tidying indoors and less outside!!!

Our nearly 5 month old is just coming out of her growth spurt/4 month sleep regression.

Last night we soothed her to sleep with a dummy when she woke and she didn't eat for 9 hours. Have you tried one? Maybe not a long term solution, but might mean you can hand over to DH for a couple of wakings and get some rest? DD has always slept well apart from the last few weeks.

I'm with you on the exhaustion front. We just decided to try everything!

My bf son is 6 months & I am yet to get a nights sleep, but sleeps linger the more he feeds during the day, so lots of bfeeds plus a bit of solids. We are baby led weaning &he loves it. Always offer breast straight away if awake in the night, then at least Im back in bed sharpish :)

I have a 5.5 m/o DD and can empathise with lots that is said on here. We have had a few amazing sleep-through-the-nights and many many six-times-a-night-wakings.

Something that didn't help was switching to formula - I did this because of going back to work, but I did think it might have some effect on DD's sleep. We have cut down to just morning and night feeds and absolutely no difference to sleep.

Something that did help us was partial night weaning: if DD woke before 3am, no milk - shush/patting a la the NCSS and dummy. I was confident to do this because she is eating quite a lot of solids and taking a 9oz bottle post bath time. If a waking was after 3am, quick breast feed (ie no more than five minutes), then back in cot. My feeling around this is that it's better that she's back to sleep as quickly as possible at night - NOT good to have baby up for 1.5 hours plus in the night or they're going to need to catch up in the day and will start getting out of sync. You have to be confident that they're taking enough milk/food in the day/evening to do this - I suppose that's easier for FF than BF.

Good luck everyone, it's really tough and I do find the lack of sleep at night makes me grumpy and shitty with DP and is generally the worst part of parenting.

Hello again,

Well I spoke too soon - he woke up once in the night one night, twice in the night the following two nights then reverted back to usual form of 3-6 times a night waking. :o(

We started to not feed him at some of the night feedings i.e. if it was only 2h since his last one! And he responded well to this for a couple of nights and then it was almost like he caught on to what we were doing and so since then, if he isn't fed he just screams the house down! I mean for hours! This includes if we are rocking him or leave him in the cot with us beside him or leave him in the cot on his own. If he goes into this mode and then we feed him, he is horrendous to get back to sleep again so for our own sanity, I've gone back to just offering him the boob each time but I know this isn't the solution. It's so hard knowing what to do for the best sighs. DH is adamant we need to do controlled crying now (mainly because he cant rock him back to sleep and is frustrated he cant help).

When he wakes up, if we feed him straight away he sometimes goes down straight away conked out. But he has also started to kick off as soon as he is put in the cot - it's like he's shouting at us and then if we try to sooth him in the cot, he starts to scream and has real tears, like he's panicking he's going to be left. He doesn't do this when we put him down at night at 7pm, just when he wakes in the night. If we dont feed him and try to sooth him other ways, he shouts and then scream/cries.

Bought the No cry sleep solution but not the methods dont seem to be working for us. My favourite part of that book is when she says that WE as parents need to be ready to let go of the night time awakenings and not cherish those moments alone in the middle of the night and make sure WE are ready to give those up as it could be us really wanting that time with baby that is stopping us moving on. Errrrrrr.....hello!!!

I am just zonked!!

I'm another one with a 5.5mo who isn't sleeping. I don't have any ideas or solutions - too sleep deprived to think of anything! But can sympathise. Luckily this is DC3 and I know it will get better - I just can't remember when.

You are not alone, 20 week old DS only used to wake two times a night, now three and last night was every hour and a half. I can't think of any other solutions as am so tired today apart from to say do you know if he is waking for any other reason? Too hot/cold/wind?

Hi Scrivette - we've actually put the thermometer for the house in his room so the whole house temperature is based on his room which is set at 18...

I usually burp him for 5 mins after every feed (counting to 300 pink elephants...seriously) so I dont think it's wind.

I'm sure there must be a reason for it, I'm just not sure what....