daytime naps

[Green]

I am writing this whilst my 19 month old son wails in the room next door. please could anyone offer some advice on what to do about day time naps. he sleeps really well at night - no probs (sleep training at 10 months old). But during the day he just will not go down. i have spent the last year either rocking him to sleep or driving him in the car - but have now realised that is just ridiculous. i really feel he needs to learn to go to sleep in the day in the same way as he does at night. he does go to sleep for his childminder (2 days per week) and for his dad and for his granny but just not for me!!!!!!any tips would be really appreciated. I have tried sleep training during the day but after about 40 minutes I tend to give up. He never cried that long at night when we tried it.

Green. Do you think he might just have grown out of day time naps,my son is 6 and he stoped sleeping during the day at 9 months,i tried and tried to get him to nap but he simply would not,yet my daughter who is almost 4 still needs a nap,i got so anxious that michael wouldn,t nap i thought i was doing something was wrong ,my health visitor reasured me that all children are different and sleep differntly.He would nap for other people,i kept telling myself that he liked being with me so much that he didnt like napping(it worked for me,and made me feel better!)

Green - As your son naps with others but not you, he clearly needs his nap... I suspect he knows which button to push with you ! (My best friend has the same problem, her daughter won't nap with her but has no problem at her nanny's !)

Gina Ford does indeed warns parents no to rock or drive their kids to sleep as you do them a diservice - as you seem to recognise now.

My advice would be for you to be tough and mean it... by that I don't mean "nasty", your son seems to know that if you put him down for a nap and he cries long enough, you will pick him up (you wrote "after about 40 minutes I tend to give up").

Prove him wrong, what about putting him down and telkling him "time for your nap, we'll play later" - shut the door and DO NOT come back for a while (put headphones on for a few minutes so that you don't feel so distressed or go to a room where you cannot hear him)... you can go and see him every so often (I'd say 20 minutes at his age.... but he is not my son, you need to do what you are comfortable with) but let him in his bed for a whole 1h30 minutes... I am prepared to bet that if you do this with him several days in a row, he will know you mean business. I also think it won't take several days to achieve ... probably 1 or 2. But you must be firm.

Oh they definitely know which buttons to press, with me its throwing everything from the highchair, but maybe he's not quite ready for his nap at the times you are putting him in his cot? Just looking at the timing of your posting, maybe try a bit later, say 1pm? Or maybe observe when his dad and granny put him down for a nap, there might be some routine there that you aren't aware of, that helps your son know he should be having his nap.

Green, I am not a Gina Ford person - through ignorance (never read the book) rather than being anti-her, I hasten to add - but I think the advice Pupace gives is spot on.

My son, two years old, has recently shown the same reluctance to have a daytime nap with me. Not as severe as the probelm you are facing, though - you have my sympathy. It must really mess up your daytime plans. Anyway, checking with his childminder, I found my son still happily sleeps for approx 2 hours each day at around 1.00 pm. So I, too, have been firm with him when I have him at weekends. I also try to ensure we have a quick trip to the park or even a play in the garden - anything to give him some fresh air - before he has a nap. This is what my childminder does. So far it is working for me.

Good luck.

Thanks for your messages. I think a combination of advice will work - I spoke to his childminder today and we thought it would be ok to put his nap back a bit - till after lunch. He does definately still need his sleep - as on successful days he sleeps for at least one and a half hours (usually 2). If he doesn't sleep - then he is a complete monster and will usually fall asleep very easily on any journey (car or pram) later in the afternoon (4 o'clock) - this isnt good though because then night routine is ruined.

I also think i need to be tougher - but am frightened about that - I think it could definately take 1 and a half hours at least for him to fall asleep - after 40 minutes he is still standing up - not even close to giving up. Also after this amount of time I start to question if he is really tired - how can he last that long??????

One other concern about this too - I only have him for two days in a row at once - do you think that is long enough to get the message across? If he still hasn't got the message - do you think it will be back to square one after one day at the childminders???

Green, I was sharing your question with my hubby whose first response was... "it's not the child who has a problem but the mother !"... this is said with the tact of man as you can see but I think he has got a point... It is your attitude towards your son which is allowing him to do this to you. I do believe 2 days will be enough if both days you stand firm... and he probably won't sleep at all the first day but he will have been in his room all that time. The second day he will either very quickly get the message that he must sleep and you are not coming back until he has slept (ideally on that day... you should not go and see him) or he will again cry but I doubt that it will be for long. Also don't assume that because he is wailing as you say for 40 mninutes that he would not have fallen asleep 3 minutes later... they can suddenly stop.

Good luck and keep us posted...
P.S. Do try to find something to occupy your mind while you are letting him in his room as time will go faster... don't stare at the clock !

I agree with Pupuce on this one. You have to be firm with you son, I know that it's horrible listening to them cry, you feel like the wickedist (is that a word?) mother in the world. But really they don't suffer any bad effects from being left to cry for a while and when they wake up again after their nap they've forgotten all about it - you will feel more traumatized than him, believe me. This approach worked with all 3 of mine and as a result, I have no problems getting them to sleep at bedtime, so it's worth it is the long run too. Persevere with it you'll get there in the end.

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ok - I've got the message everyone - tomorrow i shall stand firm. I know it is the right thing to do - sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else as well.

Pupuce - this may seem like a silly question but if he doesn't sleep at all on the first day - at what point do I go and get him then? I don't think he will just stop crying or shouting - don't i just have to wait till he sleeps - however long that takes?

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I'd leave him for 1h30 minutes... if you can't stand it, go into his room after 20 or 30 minutes and take a serious face (and a convincing voice!) and tell him, it's nap time ! And get out.....
If he won't sleep the whole time, don't worry he probably will the next day !
And as everyone seems to say... he won't even be upset when you pick him up after his 1h30... You will be more upset than him : try not show it though.
Remember you are doing this FOR him not against him.

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Bloss... what's wrong with you... you are beginning to stutter !!!!!! Have a look at Lizzer silly comments on the Gina Ford posting !!!

OK but when should you give up the daytime nap? I am at that oint with my 2 1/2 year old that sometimes she will have a nap in the day, and sometimes not. On days she has a nap then she can be a real pain to get to bed (10pm or later). Now in the evening she is usually in her room by 8 - 8.30pm (I get home from work aound 7.30 so it can't be earlier) but it often takes hours of screaming, baby gates, taking off nappies etc to finally go to sleep. Should we bite the bullet and give up the daytime nap, and just insist on quiet time after lunch for an hour or so?

My son gave up his lunchtime nap at about 2 1/2. Since then I have made a point of settling him down on the sofa with a video for 1/2hr - 1 hr after lunch so that he has a rest, and we still do this now he's 4. Sometimes, if he's really tired, he even drops off to sleep for a short while. He's quite happy, and I get my quiet time to clear up/sort out tea/read a book/return clients phone calls etc.

I dont follow any of the routines you talk about, although my son does follow a routine he has fallen into himself. You say you only have 2 full days with your son, is this the weekend?? Maybe he misses you and wants to spend his time with you. My son fights his sleep the one day his daddy is home, wanting to spend as much time with him as possible, but I must say if he does have some lack of sleep he doesnt get grumpy so I am quite lucky in that aspect.

I've said to both my kids that they can choose - they can opt to sleep on the sofa covered with some cosy cushions, or go to bed. If they don't go to sleep downstairs then they will have to go to bed. I find this works really well, now that my youngest kid is 3 and a half I only say this when I know he is really tired. It's a great help alround.

Crunchie, after 2, some children do drop their nap but what Azzie recommends is a good idea. Try to get her to have some quiet time after lunch, she may nap or she won't but just being kept calm will be a rest for her and she will be "happier" in the afternoon.
What happens if you put her in her cot and she doesn't want to sleep ? does she cry ?
Also you mention that you have some difficulties sometimes to put her to bed in the evening... maybe a clear routine which includes some calming down time would benefit her.... for example after her tea, she can read books with you, then have a bath, then a bottle (or what ever she likes to have), then books in bed (no running around, tickling, etc), a song maybe and then lights off... and be firm about it ! Again your child knows she can get away with it !
The better they sleep during the night the easier they will be during the day. It is not because she has a long nap that she needs less sleep during the night. I find that DS will sleep better during the night if he had his regular long nap rather than a very short one.

I have had a similar problem with my 2.25 year old son who has recently gone into a bed. Up until moving into a bed, he always had a good 1-2 hour nap during the day and still does during his 2 days at nursery but now we have the added battle of trying to keep him in his bed during the day for his nap as well as having that battle before bedtime too (although he is getting a lot better at bedtime). I have ended up going for a quick drive in the car with him after he has had his lunch and then letting him sleep for 1-2 hours in the car which I suppose is daft really. He gets very grumpy if he doesn't have his sleep so what else can I do?

Sazzy, I have read that moving a child from cot to bed ca be quite a challenge for some children. Clearly you are experiencing that.
What about getting him to have some quiet time on a sofa or in his room rather than "makimg him sleep" ?

I have to disagree somewhat with almost everyone here - I had exactly the same problem with my son and no amount of controlled crying techniques ever ever worked with him! You may all be saying I wasn't firm enough, maybe so, but I waited it out for hours and weeks! In the end, I found it easier to change my approach to the problem rather than his. In the same way as you describe, Green, he slept for the childminder but not for me, clearly needed nap, fell asleep in car etc. So when he was at his worst, I eventually just built it into my routines - either I would travel home at a suitable time with him fed so he'd nap enough to cope, or I'd take a magazine and a drink, or a cordless phone, drive him to sleep and then sit peacefully in the car for an hour (either in a nice car park or outside my house). It stopped me doing housework/real work but it kept him and me sane, gave me a peaceful time, and I got some RnR into the bargain. It depends what your own needs/priorities are. So, while I'd agree that you should persevere, Green, try shifting sleep time (or changing routines - maybe make a definition between night and day sleeps so he's not afraid it's the end of the day, but put in something familiar like storytime to wind him down?) and let's hope it works - if it doesn't you can always give yourself a break on some days at least. Like all of parenting, it's whatever works best for you. OK, I'm off to hide now from the responses!

didn't implement plan of action today as my mum kindly offered to take him to hers (1hour away from ours) for the next few days as she is leaving the country for a few months next week. So, unfortunately no update yet. Tuesday will be new start date - as he is at home on tuesdays and wednesdays with me.

kjlkate - ditto - it just so happens that i am usually driving home from the gym (where he is in the creche) at the time he needs to sleep - so i just used to drive him and then transfer him to the cot (which i found very easy). but then on days that i am not out and about, i will not go for a drive specifically to get him to bed - i just feel for me that doesn't fit with my ethos - i feel that he is running the show too much. Also, it seems that it is taking longer and longer for him to drop off - i find myself 'taking the long route' in order to get him to fall asleep. but i completely agree that you do have to do what works best for you - and till now that has been working fine. i just feel that things have to change now.

out of interest - what time do most/ did most of you put your 19 months old down for a nap. He sleeps till 7am ish (on joyful occasions even 7.30).

Thanks again all for your advice - I feel much stronger about being strong with all your messages backing me up. New mantra: I will stick it out, I will stick it out, I will stick it out....

Green, my son is also 19 months. He goes to bed in the evening at 7.30 and will wake between 6.30/7.00 but will amuse himself talking to his teddies etc until I go in to get him up.
During the day he isn't usually ready for a nap before 1pm and will sleep for 2 hours, and would go for longer but I don't let him sleep beyond 3pm in any case, or evening bedtime gets mucked up. As someone mentioned below it does help if they've had some exercise/fresh air in the morning - we usually do Tumbletots or Mother and Toddler groups, which pretty much wear him out anyway.
I do find that after my Mum has had him for a few days (in my house) when I'm working, when I've got him again he can take a little longer to settle for his daytime nap. I then leave him to cry it out - it seems like longer but after 5 mins he's usually gone off. I think my Mum is a bit 'soft' with him and favours cuddling on the sofa sometimes instead of his cot.

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Green, at 19 months old DS was going at 1230 for his nap because he was exhausted (up at 645 and to bed at 1900).
He is now going later but I have also changed his routine to be up at 715 and to bed at 1930.

Bloss- your son will probably improve at playing om his own soon. DS started to do that a lot more at around 20 months old. He played with (my) pots and pans and he now plays with cars a lot.