7 1/2 months - how do i cut night feeds - feeling desperate

[elfgypsy]

hi all, I have just had 3 hours of screaming and for the 3rd evening running no time for proper dinner, just cold mouthfulls of food between seeing to dd. I am mostly single parenting and feeling pissed off with ex for not being here and consistently messing me about (ex is a she, together 8 years, ambiguous about parenting and left with some consent from me 6 weeks after birth to try to figure out her role and feelings, still trying to work those things out)

I have been doing the NCSS but not had the guts to risk all night screaming by trying to cut out night time breast feeds cos the few times I tried thats what happened and I need to be able to function, been CLW with some spoon feeding for a couple of weeks but struggle with it (as well as holding everything else together) when I am too tired so been keeping up night feeds, usually 10pm, 1am, 4am.

Just called cry-sis cos I had a hellish month from around 6 months and it got better just last week and has got worse again and I don't feel able to get thru another bout of random evenings and nights, they told me to see GP or HV, do CC and other pretty mainstream stuff and told me to cut out night feeds immediately and move rooms (she sleeps in a side car type cot next to my bed) - feel really confused and convinced that I have got it all wrong and need to do something drastic, was feeling hopeful a few days ago...

Apologies for the essay, I think I needed to just talk it out a bit, it feels so full on and I have put so much into helping her to nap in the day and routine and I spend endless time thinking on the fine details of the NCSS methods and the other stuff I have read but its all so changeable all the time that none of it seems to be reliable.

How do other ppl go on cutting the night feeds and with helping them to SS when they are going cold turkey from the feeds? I guess that is my big question? How do you hold it together when they are screaming in the night and your inner voice is saying "feed her, its what she needs" and "you will be useless tomorrow and she needs you, feed her" and "you are da maging her by letting her cry" and all the feelings of despair that come along with that? I guess I really need a convincing method that I can believe in to get me thru all that stuff...

I have been holding out before trying to do anything drastic, holding out for the 7 month mark, hoping for a time when my ex can be supportive, scared of making dd have awful separation anxiety and therefore awful days of her being impossibly clingy cos of CC...but I think I need a plan, seriously...
I was so determined to not do CC but I cannot be with her all day and all evening and all night exclusively, there is only one of me and I have to feed myself and manage my life.

Thankyou for reading, please help if you can x

I don't know as my little one is only 9 weeks. I am also single and I feel for you. I too am exhausted and I really feel for you. I hope your ex gets her head on straight and you find a solution!

((hug))

Sorry things are so tough. My 6mo DS is still feeding lots overnight and it's completely exhausting I know. At the moment DS sleeps between me and DH so I am perhaps not the best advisor :) but I wonder if you need to tackle one thing at a time rather than everything? Could you feed to sleep but then settle her in in her cot away from your bed (could still be in the same room), then eventually move the cot further away from you until she's in her own room (this is our plan too....).
I have to admit I have got the most rest with co sleeping, and I think at times you have to just do whatever that gets you though the tougher weeks.

Could anyway help you just for an afternoon even so you could have a nap? Would your ex not even do this for you?
If you can't do CC - don't. Will cause more stress imo. How about PUPD?

Also, I have started a stricter routine on the advise from a poster from here and I think this is helping me somehow even though he's still not SS! Just feel a bit more in control.
In case any of this helps, this is what I aim for:
08/0900 BF
1000 cereal, followed by BF, DS normally falls asleep at end of feed and I try and lie him on pillow on sofa (wakes if I put him in cot!)
1200-1300 veg puree & fruit puree
1400 BF and hopefully nap again on me (will sneaky transfer to sofa again)
1700 Puree
1800 Bath
1830 story
1900 BF & aim for sleep , dim lights, shush pat etc (and it could take hours and sometimes only settles when we go to bed and I BF again!)
Feeds at least 3 times in night.

Obviously it's much easier for me as DH helps when he gets in from work.

Hope things get better for you. Hope I haven't waffled too much.

great NewChoos I think I need a really good structure for feeding so I will try this, they sound similar tho she sleeps in cot, used to go to sleep herself even in day quite well after months of working on it tho I slipped back into helping her a lot lately, its so easy to undo good work.
Thankyou all for responding, i think the worst thing can be isolation, i am on such a learning curve and so need to communicate.

Last night I cut the afternoon nap really short and she slept 6.30-8.30 woke and fed and then down till 9.30, my ex came and cooked me dinner and we talked and it helped a lot, there is hope...

xx

Hi elfgypsy. I'm watching this thread with interest cos my 7 month old is the same. Three weeks ago she would feed to sleep around half 7, then wake only once or twice during the night. BUT for the last three weeks I feel like I did when she was newborn. She is waking every two/three hours for a feed.

I am desperately trying to stop the breastfeeding but she refuses all bottles and cups so have no idea how I am going to cut any breastfeeds out let alone the night ones!

Hi eversoslightly, its always good to have allies thru these times, I hope you find your way thru too... I have been giving her lots of solids these last 2 days but I think either she is teething again or she is full moon crazy like last month again (or both-or something else), she is waking almost hourly exhausted and I just found her sitting up crying and hot an hour after going to bed, she just learned how to get to sitting position and is still working hard on sussing out crawling, she is so restless...

thankyou x

Hi ElfGypsy,

Just wanted to offer some support and ideas.

Firstly, I believe that at 7.5 months, a baby should sleep without waking to feed but ONLY if they have consumed enough calories during the day. If you have only just started BLW, then I suspect she is not having enough. However, it would be a good idea to be thinking about calorie dense food that she can be having at meal times: i.e. fruit and veg is not filling (you would be starving if that is all you had!) so lots of potato/sweet potato, rices, porridge, banana etc.

I also don't know how much you are bf but it is important to space out the milk feeds with the solid feeds so that your LO is hungry at each 'meal' time. I know you have a structure above, but just as another idea, here is what I have done with both my children:

7am: BREAKFAST solids (then milk, otherwise not hungry enough for food!)
8.30 - 9.30: nap
10am: snack (fruit/rice cakes/biscuit)
11.30/12.00: LUNCH + water
12.30-2.30: nap
2.30: Milk
3.30/4pm: snack
5pm: TEA + water
6.30pm: milk
7pm: bed

Which leads me onto the next thing - naps! It really is true that the more they sleep, the better they sleep. I found playing music in my DS2's room (from the BT monitor) was a godsend. I played it every nap time and at every bedtime and it became an association for him. Even if he wakes in the night, I can play it (remotely from my bed!) and it will settle him.

Has your LO got a comforter? Again, my DS2 will only sleep with his teddy (I initially slept with it in my PJ's so it smelt of me and he took to it straight away.

Anyway, a few ideas and I hope things start to improve soom

Hi addictedto. Thanks for you post!! It's funny cos I was told by the HV to start the day with a breast feed but I think after seeing what you have put I am going to go with your plan!

Unfortunately my DD doesnt like the music/light thingy I bought for her nor will she have any comforter of any kind but I might try and find something she likes and put that in the cot with her.

thanks frazzles for great suggestions, really feel encouraged on the journey, i gave her loads of apple puree (from our garden tree) and she has hellish nappy rash today and is teething with top set, she did sleep deeper for longer in the eve yesterday after an initial wake up which felt significant, after 3 solid meals and bf's, I was really focussed on it and I got a good response.

also I took the NCSS to heart and have lots of sleep associations, music and a soft toy and a comfort blanket that i sometimes wear so it smells of me and bedtime routine and timing, and I work hard on naps tho today she got freaked out passing her first solids poo both times when she was dropping off at morning nap so I abandoned it after 1 hr 1/2, it feels like there is just too much going on for her to settle, will try her again after lunch.
Feeling glad to be not doing much else this week, things aren't always this full on for her...

Hi elfgypsy, sorry you're having a rough time but glad all these good suggestions and advice are helping you feel more positive! I have just managed to drop night feeds (most nights!) with my 10 mo old & wanted to share what worked for me. Is there anyone else who can go to her for the first few wakings each night? Even just a few nights of not getting mummy (and my boobs!) every time he woke made a big difference with DS. He wasn't hungry, he was just in the habit of waking. If not then try to wait a little bit longer before you pick her up - if I'm on my own I set a timer for 5 mins and only go in if he's still grizzling when the timer finishes (obviously if it becomes hysterical go in earlier but sometimes they just need a few minutes to fuss around then drop off again). In the middle of the night 30 seconds of grizzling can seem like an age so the timer helps. I also truly think that having him in his own room has made a big difference - don't know if that is possible for you.

You asked about how you can keep it together in the middle of the night...I am a yoga teacher and a big believer in the power of standing still, feeling your feet on the ground and taking 5 (10?) big, deep, full breaths to centre yourself before you do anything. Your daughter will not come to any harm in the time it takes you to do that, Then you will go to her with more of a calm energy -which she will pick up on - and whatever you decide to do (feed her or not) will be from a place of being grounded rather than frustrated! Good luck :)

thanks clarejane, yes, breathing helps and i often forget so thanks for reminding me, I have practiced yoga for 15 years and would like to integrate my learnings into my parenting wherever possible.

I am really getting that I need to leave her more and more, i had such a horrible experience when I first tried it that I got scared of her fury in the night when I didn't feed her, but I need to get tougher on myself and not give in so easily, I need to regain my energy to be the mum I want to be and I need to invest short term to get to a place of more rest.
Its so good to hear from you clarejane that you managed to do it, i don't have another person to go to her but I could move myself into another room and wear someone else's jumper when I go in, I think I just need some clarity on what I am doing, the transition to solids was phase one and I am preparing for the crying and how to manage that as phase 2. Its been a hard week with her teething and sleep crawling, last night the only way I got sleep was to hold onto her in my bed, she just kept pushing up, crawling, rolling and sitting up in her cot crying, over and over again...crazy times...
Thanks for all the support, more is always welcome :)
x

Maybe at the last feed add baby rice or porridge to it?

I'm no longer BF so am giving HIPP Good night milk to 7.5 mo which seems to take DD from 7PM to 5.30 (5.30 has always been her waking up time so not joy in getting a lie in on the weekend)

The Good night milk has cereals to keep them fuller throughout the night. Yes she has woken with teething, dirty nappies and a bad cold but not from being hungry.

Another suggestion on how to deal with grumbling at night is earplugs (for me). I slept with them pre-DS and whilst they don't block everything out, they can take the edge off. I was always worrying about not waking up, but you do. And it just means that when you need to tune out the grizzling, it's slightly more bearable.

Good luck x

Ok, I'm going to add an alternative view here, which is just to go with your instincts for now, and be kind to yourself and dd to try to make your days more enjoyable. It sounds like you're having a tough time and are exhausted, and are struggling to find the energy to keep going. If you're not doing so already, it might help to get out for a walk and fresh air every day, and to go to baby groups so you can have a cup of tea while the other babies and different toys keep your dd entertained. I know from experience (i have a 7 month old dd) that the days I'm stressed/tired/poorly are the ones where she gets grumpy and cries and it all ends up in a horrible vicious circle, as I'm sure she picks up on my mood. I'm a strong believer in listening to your instincts, and also that all babies are different and you have to do what works for yours. I think if you could have more pleasant days and evenings (do you know what sets her off then?) it might make it easier to deal with the nights with a clear head. For what it's worth my dd is a dreadful sleeper too at the moment, but we've had phases of good sleep and phases of bad sleep, and so I have some hope that it will improve again. When the nights are bad and I'm tired I find the constant treadmill of baby care completely draining too, and that's with the support of my dp, so I have lots of sympathy for you!

thanks all for your support and encouragement, things have got better, I think she was teething and having a growth spurt with her new crawling developing, she now has top 2 teeth.
i have stopped the 1am feed and she has woken for the last 5 nights for between 1 1/2 and 3 hrs but is crying less, just crawling round the cot area and on my bed for hours but i can rest thru it and am going to bed really early to cope with the middle of night antics and awakeness, she is more rested in the evenings and wakes less, i think the solids routine has helped a lot. She just turned 8 months, i am hoping she is learning to settle more and enjoying it while it lasts, just need to sort out the 1am-3am wakings, I hope she figures it out soon,
xx

Just wanted to post 3 weeks on in case anyone elso going thru this reads the thread and wonders what the outcome was, she is now sleeping much better after a week or so of disruption when I did cut the 1.30am feed after getting her well established on solids and feeding her up before bed, for a week she was waking at midnight and restless and crawling on me till as late as 4am, I put some pillows between my bed and hers and that did the trick so far, I am also considering a travel cot to keep her contained, like a padded cell so she can wander safely in the night and not jump on me. I feel so much better with the sleep and she seems happier too, also her daytime naps are becoming more regular, she is just over 8 months now, so, till the next upheaval things are going well
x x