Controlled crying does not work. Help!!!!

[Teifi]

Help. Have a 7 1/2 month old. He was waking 1-2 times a night and having a bottle, although not really interested, so at 6 mths decided to do controlled crying. 6 weeks later he is now waking 4-6 times a night. I have gone from controlled crying after 2 weeks to leaving him to cry it out. Which clearly is not working either. As the weeks go by he is just getting worse. He will wake randomly throught the night and cries from 5 mins to 2 hours each time he wakes. I do not pick him up, or feed him. I check every now and then that he is not hot/cold, stuck awkardly in cot etc which he isn't. He is my 3rd baby. I did controlled crying with my 1st child and it worked brilliantly. I tried it with my 2nd and it just did not work and she did not sleep through the night until she was 3 years old. I became exhausted, very unwell and ended up on antidepressants. I really do not want to go down that road again. CAN ANYONE HELP ME!!!? Has this happened to anyone else? Can anyone recommend any safe mild sedative I can give him (or me!!!!). Waiting in anticipation.

Hi Teifi - I have 3 boys (5, 2 and 7 months) and have had the best sucess and sleep when I have my youngest in the bed. If not use to it and willing to give it a try I would get a sleeping bag for the baby and have a duvet and pillow each for you and your dp/dh to minimise risk of them getting under the duvet. If he likes falling asleep in your arms then that is the answer. I would just surrender to his need. They can be so different, some may want to be held more than others. The sleep you get is different as you are aware that they are there, but at least you will be getting some sleep. it is so sweet waking up with them in your arms
if interested in trying this out there are 2 good books 'three in a bed' deborah jackson and 'the continuum concept' by jean lliedloff

Teifi, this sounds dreadful for you all. I would give Shrub's idea a go - you need to try something radically different. He clearly isn't ready to learn to go to sleep by himself yet and you will just make yourselves miserable to continue trying. Let him be with you when he wants to and get yourself some rest. Anything must be better than listening to him screaming for 2 hours in the night

teifi, sorry to hear this stress
i know he is your 3rd so if i am pointing the obvious to you then excuse me, how much milk does he get in the day and when, is it large amts at regular times or does he fuss and not finish
hae u stopped the night bottle (?), at 10pm/11pm
maybe he needs that feed still, my ds didnt stop that til after 8mths.
what time is bedtime? and what time is he up
are does he nap in the day?
maybe he needs the PUPD method, c/c didnt work with my ds but that did, just as c/c worked on my dd fine.

Hi Tefi,

Is he teething or hungry? How many solids is he having a day?

I was doing the CC on my Ryan, who is 8 months. He was waking up every hour for his dummy or milk. Now he is only waking up once or twice a night. I have stop doing the CC, as he is teething badly.

I have just brought Medised today, it is a medicine, For babies who are teething, flu and cold etc.(which Ryan has got a cold and teething) the medicine suppose to make babies sleepy. I will see if that help tonight!

Have you talk to your health vistor? I wish all the best.

Must confess on really bad nights I do give him Medised which works a treat... we then get a wonderful 4 hours sleep! Interesting thought about having him in the bed. Have never done that because I sleep so badly with a baby or child in the bed so I end up sleeping even worse than listening to a baby cry on and off all night. But thanks anyway Shrub.

To Hermykne though. What is the PUPD method? I have never heard of that. I have stopped the 11 pm feed. He has solids 8 am and 5 oz milk, solids 12 noon and 5 oz milk, solids 4 pm and 5 oz milk. Bath 6 pm and 5-6 oz milk and bed at 7 pm. Will give him a bottle at 5 am if he wakes around then. He is generally awake from 6/6.30 am. Naps 9.30 am - 11 am. Nap 2.30 pm - 3 pm.
I have tried re-introducing the 11 pm feed and sometimes he would take it and sometimes he wouldn't. Either way he still woke frequently through the night even if he did take that feed. So I dropped the feed again. But do tell me more about this PUPD method.

teifi
pupd, is time consuming but ewasier on the child
pick up (soothe/reassure)put down, and you soothe for about 5mins (maybe)initally gradually reducing it, and put them back in cot, then leave for a while , imo however short beforre they errupt again, lift reassure and place back down, with lots of ssshhhhingggg, as this calms them but alos drowns out their crying. it worked on my ds at about 5mths over a week 10days. ans i was always able to fall back to it if necessary quite easily.

re his naps, i would shorten the 9.30 nap to 30mins and wake him (oh cruel advice here)next nap 12/12.30 for two hours hopefully and up til bedtime, ie a good 6/7hrs of awakeness before bed.maybe come evening he is overtired and cant settle into that deep night time REM.

i know the short am nap is prob horrifying but he is compenating not sleeping well at night for you at that nap, and by moving his nap to lunchtime/noon he should be ready for a good solds night sleep

bit of work involved maybe i am a bit too much? hope not, just hate to hear mums not getting sleep as i know how exhausted it leaves you.

Wow, thanks Hermykne. Will give both those things a go. Watch this space....

oh good luck
i did this with my ds and he is a wonderful sleeper, from 8mths, loves bed at 8pm sleeps til 7.40/45 (5mins make a difference )
and naps 2hrs at noon

I also used pupd with great success, but, like anything you have to do it religiously for two weeks to give it time to work. If you give up after the first couple of days it won't work, and in fact that is the case with anything you do!

I used controlled crying with my first two and although it worked, I found pupd much kinder and with the same results.

My advice mirrors Herm's - pupd works if they get enough food in the day, are settled into a good eat and nap routine in the day (Routine - not Gina Ford SCHEDULE!!!)

It is well known now that baby needs to learn to fall asleep on their own - if they have a prop to fall asleep with like a dummy, being rocked, feeding etc... they won't be able to settle themselves off to sleep again without those associations and will struggle to sleep through without your input.

If you have Sky TV on Discovery Health, The Baby Whisperer (the late Tracy Hogg) demonstrates pupd on there, or there is a Baby Whisperer website as well. She was amazing with babies and it totally changed the way I dealt with my third one and I feel like I understand babies so much better now - sorry, going off on a tangent, I know!

Good luck!

PS I would read up on pupd before trying it - you really need the full picture before giving it a go or without understanding why it works, it may not be easy to perservere with it. (It took me a while to be convinced!)

Thanks 3cherubs. I am doing to find out all about PUPD and give it a good go. I have heard about the baby whisperer and will search it out. I am quite a routine person and have tried Gina Ford's routine..what a nightmare. Gave up after 4 weeks. I had anything but a contented baby I can tell you! But I will try anything once, especially if someone says it will make my baby sleep at night!!!

Well I am not a Gina Ford fan, as I find that my babies can not be set exactly to a clock, especially when you have 3 small kids!!! She uses schedules - set times for doing everything, whereas The Baby Whisperer says they enjoy a routine - sleep, food ect in the same order each day - the exact time each day could differ half an hour here or there, but that babies are more settled when they know what to expect next, but that you can't set the clock to do things at exactly the same time each day.

If they have no routine they often get over tired and over hungry and mum is less likely to know what is is bothering them, wheras on a similar routine each day you can make some pretty accurate guesses! So really the baby whisperer emphasises the difference between a schedule (Gina Ford!) and a routine.

Sorry Gina Ford fans - I am sure it works for some... But not for my 3 very different individuals with different needs!

Teifi, my ds is nearly 15 months and wakes up about 4 times in the night. I usually bring him in bed with us if he wakes after we've gone to bed. Would be just too tired otherwise. Can you maybe give that a try to get you all some sleep?

3cherubs. I am not a Gina Ford fan either after my experience! But I am a routine person and I do like my babies to be in a routine. A friend of mine has a copy of the baby whisperer and I have asked her if I can borrow it. But yes, I think you are right. Babies' needs do differ slightly from baby to baby and day to day by half hour here or there. Am interested to read that book.

Dinny. It is nice to know that there are people out there who have babies who do not sleep! Not that it helps me or them but it is just nice to know I am not alone. I seem to be surrounded by people whose babies slept through from 8 weeks or so and look at me as if I have just stepped off of Mars or as if I am a bad parent because mine doesn't because obviously it must be something I am doing wrong! It is really nice to know I am not alone. I personally can not do the sleeping with babies or children in the bed with me. I do not agree or disagree with it. It just doesn't work for me. I tend to sleep worse with a baby in the bed so I am better getting up 4 or 5 times a night than do that. I wish I could sleep with a baby next to me.... that must be quite nice.

also forgot to add that my ds3 gets really good sleep (up to 4 hours as im bf) when i give him a bath and a massage. i don't do this every night as i'm so tired by 7pm putting my other 2 to bed but when i do i always get a good sleep. thought i would also add that me and dh also go to bed between 8-9pm at the latest - hilarious i know but i found if i go to bed late the next day is so much harder. it won't last forever!

Hi Teifi. I hope you have found what you need but if not, maybe you should give
Gina another go. I use her books as a guide rather than a bible and this goes for the routines too. I think her advice and routine are meant well but in the real world, can and should be adapted.

Give it a go. If nothing else it will reaffirm that she's not for you but on the other hand, it could work. She also used the PUPD methods to sleep train. I am a huge fan and have her toddler book too but use these to help me rather than follow Gina unswervingly.

Also, try not te let him sleep after 2:30 pm. if he really can't make it then let him have a 10-15 minute power nap but no longer.

Good luck

Ah thanks everyone. You have all certainly given me some new thoughts to chew over and try. Am seeing my HV this week so I will bend her ear as well! Will let you know how I get on.