my 3 yr old is refusing to sleep in her bed!!!

[redheadmum]

the last couple of weeks my Dd has totally refused to sleep in her bedroom...she's been v unsettled at night and up to recently have been able to settle her back, but now she will only go to sleep in our bed...to the point which she is going down in our bed when we aren't in it!

She says there are spiders in her room. I have so far tried
magic circles/spells
night light
searching out all spiders and getting rid of them, telling them shoo etc
dream catcher

all to no avail.

We have a 5 month baby still in our bedroom, but this hasn't been an issue up to now. He comes in the bed for feeds.

Our sleep including Dd's is so disrupted it's making days a nightmare - help!!

we had this problem with ds. i'm afriad the only thing that worked was moving his bedroom permanently, so no we no longer have a spare room..... he does now sleep very well in his new room.

you moved it permanently to where? we have a spare room that I was going to convert for the baby...I guess we could think about putting her here????

I've just tried to put her in her bed again. She gets right to the last moment and then she won't go. She seems more determined to sleep in our bed than scared of the spiders....but who knows

anyone else out there??? I'm going mad with sleep deprivation....

we too have a baby, & my plan was for her to share with ds when she was a bit older, therefore keeping the spare room. he didn't like that idea though. he slept in the spare bed (v. comfortable double, better than his ikea toddler bed i suspect!) for a few months before we decided to turn the spare room into his room properly. it's actually worked really well, & he rarely comes into our bed during the night now. i was wary of doing it as he now sleeps on the floor below us, but has no problems coming up in the night if he needs to. dd is still in our room (she's 4.5 months), & what will be her room is full of clothes....

yes I had planned that the two of them would share when baby was old enough and settled. I guess there's no reason for her not to sleep in a different room, just it's smaller and full of gym equipment etc certainly worth considering!!!

I'm thinking of sleeping in her room tonight and just getting up to our room when the baby wakes....not sure how this will work. I can't take another night with them both in the bed it's driving me crazy to have them all day and all night (plus she tells me off - mummy you're on my hair etc etc). will be pleading insanity v v soon.....

OMG sounds like a nightmare. No real advice (have only got the one at the moment, and that is bad enough) but sleeping in dd's room sounds like a good idea.

Or could you borrow a cat to go into the room and tell dd it has eaten the spiders??? Perhaps more imaginative than practical that one!

what is your bedtime routine?

I usually bath the two together, go into Dd s room put them in their jammies, then stories then bed for Dd and then go and put the baby down.

all sounds seamless......not always quite the reality. I don't bath them every night, but it's the same except I do face washing teeth etc instead of bath then jammies etc.

We had the same thing with dd (same age). All of a sudden she said she was scared of the dark/monsters/was hungry/thirsty/needed a pee, got out of bed, or just plainly refused to go when it was bedtime. After about a week of light on in the doorway/blocking monsters contraptions/extra drinks when already in bed/extra loo visits, we decided she was just trying it on (as she kept coming up with the most inventive new schemes).

So, we told her that she could look at the streetlamps through the opening in the curtains, drink as much as she liked when cleaning teeth, have an extra long pee when putting pyjamas on, etc, but that bedtime means bedtime means sleeping means not getting up (unless she thgouht she was getting wet knickers). Not listening meant loosing favourite book to top of the bookcase. Which happened once - she got it back by what we call 'going to bed normally' the next day. All is fine now. (until she comes up with something new, I'm sure!)

(Got that of my chest, didn't I. Sorry for the lengthy post - not even sure it's helpful..!)

how was last nite?

Is there anyway you could put baby down first then read dd stories whilst she is in bed, then maybe stay with her to help her get to sleep?

RHM - snap! we're having this problem too, well i think its the way we're going. DD has just started waking up and demanding to coem in our bed too. weird, us Junies are all the same

Julen I personally think you are right and this is the way to go. Do wonder if some of it is jealousy of the baby.

Yes Bozza, you're right, might have to be with the baby. On the other hand, one does seem to hear it more, these 3 y olds who suddenly start having these behavioural 'adventures'. Probably a bit of both...?

Your dilemma is really centred around:

Is she genuinely frightened and if so how to deal with it?
Is she trying it on?

I remember there being a really good thread about 'bedtime procrastinations' on here about 6 months ago and loads of mums of 3-year-olds were all going through the same thing: Sudden fear of the dark, sudden discomfort in the bed, fear of monsters, need for extra wees etc. etc. and gradually all came to the conclusion that doing 'magic' removals of the fear weren't helping because the 'fear' would always be replaced by another one. Plus they're giving attention which is, as we know, what every living 3-year-old most wants.

Has your dd previously been an unproblematic sleeper? If so, then there may be a real fear, although I would expect it to also show up occasionally in the day or even in your room. Who's to say there's no spiders there for instance?

If she has previously been a difficult sleeper and from how you've described your dd and the things you've already done to reassure her, I think she's 'trying it on', that's not to say without good reason. There's a baby in your room safe and cosy and allowed to get into your bed. Her room suddenly won't seem so appealing - she's got a little way to go yet to being proud to be a Big Girl, she's still loosening her 'baby' ties to you. BUT I think you have to be firm. It might be horrible for a couple of nights. Have you tried the Christopher Green approach? It involves staying close-ish outside her door after she's got into bed. Then when she reappears you put her in gently but firmly with a kiss and cuddle but NO dialogue. After that you reduce things further so just gently keep returning her to her bed. The idea is that there's no point, no reward for her to get out of bed, she gets tired and bored and goes to sleep. It's a bit like controlled crying in its principle.

I wouldn't even consider sleeping in her room. How long are you going to do that for? It's just postponing dealing with the problem.

I have this problem too Kleist but I cannot do anything about it as DD and DS share a room and I unfortunately haven't got a spare room so cannot let DS cry as he wakes DD up and she has school the next day.

Poor DP has had to sleep in DS's bunk bed for 4 nights running now!!!!

Sorry if I have hijacked, I was going to post my own thread but thought this was a similar problem to mine!!!

hijack away!

last night I decided it was utter madness to sleep in her room....after all it's our bed and I can't be ousted by a 3 yr old!!!

I agree with the 'trying it on' theory as last night despite all the tricks of magic etc she insisted the spiders were there. She didn't seem all that scared I did try to push is a bit to see what her reaction would be as I agree I need to see what the source of the spider fear is.

It all went really well, until the last moment of goodnight and then she refused to stay in the bedroom, tantrum ensued.......and she came into our bed. My paltry excuse on this was Dh comes home tonight and we can deal with it together.

I do think that she's feeling the lack of attention with another sibling around...she asked if I could put the baby down last night and then read her a story. Fortunately it was possible last night, but lots of times it isn't as I do the double put down...and of course having sleeping difficulties with him too!!! ie not going down.,...

I guess I feel terrible to keep her in her room if she's genuinely scared, but I know we can't carry on like this as the days are just dreadful with 2 sleep deprived kids and a bad tempered mommy....what did others do to be firm??

When DH was away and DD was a baby I would feed her while reading his story if she needed it at the time. Then I would put her down whether she was crying or not while I gave him a kiss and cuddle and tucked him in. Then I would take her to my bedroom and finish feeding her there.

yes, Boz you made me ponder there.....I do think it's been really hard for me to spend time with her on my own. Tonight I read one story all of us and one with just us together....she's still in our bed of course!!! heh heh

seriously though, it's been on my mind that she needs something like this

redheadmum, this is kinda similar to my dd shes 3+2mths but my ds is older than oyur baby, 16mths.
but she dleays bed every night and may wake 2 in the night and one of those times is adament to get in beside me.

no matter how tired she is , she still wont goto bed when i calmy suggest it.
so i have kinda ignored it, as she will occupy herself with a game from 8-9pm and then i bribe her with milk to go to bed.

i think she likes a cuddle in the night as in the day there isnt reallt the time to do that with her but i do make an effort if ds is napping.

all i can say if perhaps its a 3yr old thing and it;ll pass. my dd was religiously in bed by 8 because she'd say ready for bed now mom.

i cut her day nap out but the cross crankiness come 5pm wasnt worth it so she gets an hour max to keep things on the straight and narrow

does your dd nap in the dya

RHM, you didn't say if she's been previously a good or a problematic sleeper? Did you ever do anything like controlled crying? If so, I'd use a similar type of approach. Just make it clear it's not going to happen.

How's her behaviour the rest of the time? What kinds of 'discipline' do you use in general that work with her?

RHM

Hiya, I agree totally with Kleist's first post...very wise words This does sound like a jealousy of the baby thing. We had a little with ds when dd arrived too. I worked at getting dd into a routine where she has a bath first, then ds (although more often than not he junps in with her now!) then I give her a bottle and put her to bed first, whilst ds is allowed some play/cuddle time (playing with quiet calming stuff, eg jigsaws, books, drawing). Once dd has been down about 1/2 hour then ds goes to bed with a story. This works well because he feels he has some time alone with us and he's a big boy allowed to stay up later than his sister . We had a problem with monsters a while ago, and to some extent they're still there but I said firmly 'mummy's put them in the bin so they've gone now' and just kept repeating it, and bless him now if there's anything he doesn't like he asks me to put it in the bin!

It'll be tough at first but you must be firm and not allow her in your bed, and just keep putting her back in her own bed as Kleist says. Once she realises that she gets no special attention for playing up hopefully she'll go back to sleeping well in her own room. Good luck sweetie, x

Yes, I think what I was getting it, probably badly as usual is that at the moment she's getting wonderful attention from all this. Attention which far outweighs any real arachnophobic tendency. A nightlight, extra cuddles, magical games etc. etc. It might be hard for her to give all that up you know RHM?

yes, my eyes have been opened! It's too easy to get led along a path without seeing where it's really going! Dh is home so she's getting extra cuddles anyway, but I think I need to address how I can give her attention.

We've got ds on the bottle now so I can escape! am planning to do a birthday party on the weekend just me and dd....and will try to do that regularly....and gonna do the bedtime thing now too. Any other suggestions?

on the question of what kind of sleeper she is....um not good when she was a baby, and we had to do controlled crying when she was 8 months or so. She's a very light sleeper too. Daytime nap gone and it's pretty impossible to get her down in the day when she does need a nap. The other day tried to do daytime nap by stealth ie in the car and that didn't work either!

I'm hoping if we're firm on the bedtime routine, and more attention in the day it m ight even itself out...still would like suggestions though am rather nervous of tonight!

Not read all thread as DS waking up, but have you tried bathing her on her own? I know it might be awkward with baby, but that would be more 'you and her' time too.

Not read all thread as DS waking up, but have you tried bathing her on her own? I know it might be awkward with baby, but that would be more 'you and her' time too, and given that its just before the dreaded bedtime....

RHM, how did it go tonight?

I'm not sure but this bedtime business might not be to do with not enough daytime attention? Do you think she's really feeling deprived? Does she go to nursery or have family or friends around?

My dd went through a phase of absolutely absurd bedtime procrastination about 5 months ago, out of the blue. And there was no sibling rivalry going on. Nothing had changed in her life. It was just a new thing. She was 'scared of the dark' 'frightened to sleep all alone' 'scared of monsters' 'thirsty' 'need a wee' and on and on. Lots of tears. I felt awful and really thought something was wrong. I tried all kinds of things and eventually posted on here and was bombarded with other people whose 2.5-3year olds were doing the same thing! It was hilarious. We all made a deal that we'd cut the messing around. We all had a chat to our kids (all girls oddly) and told them what was going to happen then we stuck to the Christopher Green method I mentioned earlier. Within nights they were all going to bed without a peep. All those dreadful fears miraculously vanished ...

What does you dp think to it all? Could he have a go at putting her to bed?