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Crying it out Versus Not crying it out? Which one?

38 replies

cherrysodalover · 31/05/2011 23:06

Just sharing this link to interesting conversation between the two specialists on this on with pretty polarised views-Weissbluth and Sears.

I have just been reflecting on how instinctive the choice is for each family-but I am surprised people are so anti the opposite method to the one they have chosen.

I never point out ( I of course think it to myself) to people who who let their babies cry it out that there is much research( which convinces me) to suggest this can be harmful but others are so quick to make a point about their own choice...."Ah yes we knew when he was 4 months and we brought him into bed with us when he cried that he was manipulating us and we never did it again." said one mum I know who also knew we co slept. I am really amazed by how people do seem to attack others choices on this topic.

Maybe I am the same as I think it- when people let babies cry till they are sick I have an opinion on that of course- but I keep it to myself.Same with formula feeding through choice rather than necessity.I have an opinion on that choice because of the research out there that is available to most people.

I know we all do what enables us to flourish as families and I can see some are forced to let babies cry it out, to stay sane, but does that mean people just ignore the research ...... in Sears' words?Yet I also get that people need to get their sleep and if the baby just cries for a short time, then sleeps, I can't see how that can be harmful, even though I can't even bring myself to do that.

www.chicagotribune.com/health/ct-health-chat-children-sleeping,0,5608949.htmlstory

QUOTE FROM SEARS

""""""""Dr. Bob Sears: And I would say that mild CIO is fine for babies. But I worry about INTENSE WEEKS of crying night after night. Here are some thoughts:

INTENSE CIO RAISES CORTISOL AND CAN CAUSE STRESS IN THE BRAIN:
Circulating throughout the bloodstream of every person, even tiny babies, is an adrenal hormone called "cortisol." Produced by the adrenal glands, this hormone helps major systems of the body function normally. The body needs just the right amount of cortisol at the right times. Too much or too little, and the body is not in tune, sort of like an engine trying to run with the wrong mix of gasoline and air. Adrenal hormones are also known as stress hormones. Levels rise quickly to help a person react to a threat. Although stress hormones are needed in times of danger, if they remain too high for too long, the body becomes overstressed and certain systems, such as the immune system, can't function as well. Experiments on both human infants and infant experimental animals showed these fascinating results about attachment research. :

  • Human infants with the most secure attachment to their mothers had the best cortisol balance.
  • The longer infant animals were separated from their mothers, the higher the cortisol levels, suggesting that these babies could be chronically stressed. The mothers also experienced elevated cortisol levels when separated from their babies.
  • Prolonged cortisol elevations may diminish growth.
  • Prolonged cortisol elevations may suppress the immune system.
  • Infant animals separated from their mothers showed imbalances in the autonomic nervous system -- the master control system of the physiology. They didn't show the usual increases and decreases in heart rate and body temperature, had abnormal heartbeats (called "arrhythmia"), and showed disturbances in sleep patterns, such as a decrease in REM sleep (the stage of sleep in which an infant is most arousable in response to a life-threatening event). Similar physiological changes were measured in preschool children separated from their parents
  • In addition to the agitation caused by prolonged elevation of adrenal hormones, separation sometimes caused the opposite physiological effect: withdrawn, depressed infants who had low cortisol levels.
  • Separated infants showed more irregular heart rates.
  • Infants separated from their mothers were less able to maintain a stable body temperature.
  • Infant animals who stayed close to their mothers had higher levels of growth hormones and enzymes essential for brain and heart growth. Separation from their mothers, or lack of interaction with their mothers when they were close by, caused the levels of these growth-promoting substances to fall. Clearly, the continued presence of a nurturing mother is important for the infant's physiological and emotional well-being. A secure mother-infant attachment helps an infant's physiological systems work better. Attachment organizes a baby's overall physiological systems; separation disorganizes them."""""""""
OP posts:
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PukeyRag · 07/06/2011 09:44

P.s. Thank you seeker. Precisely.

DialMforMummy · 07/06/2011 09:47

Seeker my comparison is not bonkers, because a child having a tantrum will experience the same physical symptoms described in the extract posted by PukeyRag.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. And yes, off course a baby has feelings that need to be respected. When I did CC with my child, I thought it was the right time for a range of reasons and judging by by how quickly it worked I can only assume I was right.
Sometimes my LO is ill or whatever so will wake up in the night, and I do come and see what is up. I can assure you I am not heartless or neglectful. I simply have different views from you.

DilysPrice · 07/06/2011 09:55

Leaving a young baby to cry for hours with no reassurance is not an "extreme form of CC" - it's cruel, and bears no ressemblance to CC.
I've seen a fair amount of this on various threads, a very confused "being cruel to children is cruel, which is why I don't agree with CC. Oh, maybe not the reasonable sort of CC you're talking about. I'm just talking about the sort that I've made up and decided to label as CC."

PukeyRag · 07/06/2011 10:02

The thing is DialM, a toddler understands a lot more and is able to communicate with words, allowing you to explain things and resolve a situation.
It isn't quite the same with a baby, whos only means of communication is crying.
If CC has worked for you and your baby, and you both have a loving, happy relationship, then i'm not discriminating that, and yes, we have different views.
I'm simply expressing my opinion on how I see it, and I know that I (as the type of person I am) would feel incredibly guilty for leaving my baby to cry.

PukeyRag · 07/06/2011 10:03

I also believe that babies get stressed very quickly, and CC in whatever form is just not an option for me.

DialMforMummy · 07/06/2011 10:05

Fair enough Pukey

seeker · 07/06/2011 10:33

DialMforMummy - so you believe that a baby is as aware of its surroundings, as able to reason and as aware of the passage of time as a toddler? And a baby wanting reassurance and the security of a person who loves it is the same as a toddler wanting sweets? And that a baby's need for reassurance is the samw as a toddler's desire for sweets?

Because that is what you have said. Is that what you think - or do you want to qualify your statement?

DialMforMummy · 07/06/2011 10:40

When my baby cried once every night around about the same I believed it was more out of a habit he had taken when he was ill than out of a real need.
I don't think it was not about reassurance or anything like that. And I am not advocating CC for very small babies, I did so with mine when he was gone 6 months, so yes by then I do believe he was aware of his surroundings and so on.

seeker · 07/06/2011 10:42

So a 6 month old has the same understanding as a toddler? Is that what you're saying?

DialMforMummy · 07/06/2011 10:43

not quite but it's getting there.

DialMforMummy · 07/06/2011 10:44

I must go now sorry to cut conv short

seeker · 07/06/2011 10:46

I do hope that nobody else starts to believe such dangerous nonesense.

CountBapula · 08/06/2011 04:12

I think this blog is a very sensible approach to this debate.

Sounds like petty and matana have tension releasers - babies who need to cry/fuss for a short while to let off steam before sleep. This is not CIO IMO.

My DS is definitely a tension increaser - he quickly gets hysterical if left to cry, and would carry on crying for long periods if not comforted, so CIO/CC would never work for us.

As the very wise Moxie says, the assumption that all babies are the same causes a lot of problems.

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