Does it really get better? 8 months and still no better!

[nov75]

How can this still be? After 8 long months my beautiful DD still doesn't sleep more than 4 hours (and that's a good night). Everyone else around me has babies who sleep 12 hours with no wakings and I have reached breaking point. If one more person tells me it will get better and it doesn't/isn't I am going to scream. How can she still be such a poor sleeper and napper (lucky to get 2x1 hour naps per day)? Have read No Cry Sleep Solution religiously and tried EVERYTHING! DD is bf and such a good baby by day but honestly I am sick and tired of being exhausted by having 3/4 hours broken sleep every night. Have a sinking feeling I am in for a berthing haul. Heard scary tales of this lasting 3 years+. So, has anyone else been here and got through it still sane? How did you do it? Any survival tips for the many night time wakings?

Jointhedots I am an only child for this very reason!

Aww you poor thing... My DS was like this for the first year and a half of his life. Like you, everyone else's babies were sleeping through the night but not mine. I tried CIO but he's too determined and would scream the whole house down for ages and it was very heartbreaking to hear it. As he grew older, and his level of understanding and communication got better - he was able to settle down if he woke up in the middle of the night and was able to tell me what exactly bothered him, etc. Now he's almost 3, he sleeps through the night. He still wakes up once a night though but its for something like a drink of water or to take off the blanket if he's feeling warm or to put an additional blanket on if he's feeling cold... I have no idea if he does wake up more than that but is able to go back to sleep himself these days most times, sometimes without needing my assistance if he could just help himself - I put a non-spill bottle next to his bedside so he could grab a sip himself if he needs it, and he can also take off the blanket or put it on himself most instances.

I'm not going to get into a debate about the long term effects of CC as there has been no research. However, as a psychologist I, personally am not risking it. Ilovemountains - you've missed my point. I'm simply saying that DD is doing what human babies have been doing for thousands of years before gina ford, society, whomever divined that babies should sleep through by a certain age. They all get there in the end and I'm with Elizabeth Pantley on this one 'you can cry them there or you can love them there'. CC cannot be compared to modern medicine but FWIW I do think there is a fair bit wrong in 'modern' way of raising babies, for example high expectation about them sleeping through, eating vast amounts of solids at 6 months, moving them into their own rooms at a young age etc. I'm not a mad hippy, I live a standard modern life, but there's no harm in questioning 'modern' assumptions about baby rearing.

Nov75 - sorry for the thread hijack - hope to see you back on the boat!

"I have to admit that I am way more rested after sleeping through in one go rather than waking up every few hours. So in fact sleeping through or in chunks for me makes a huge difference so I can only imagine it would be the same for our DC."

Babies and adults have very different sleep patterns. Adults spend most of the night in deep, restorative sleep (NREM sleep). Babies cycle frequently in and out of lighter REM sleep. We, the parents, feel knackered because we are being dragged out of a deep sleep several times a night. The baby, on the other hand, can be fresh as a daisy the next day even if they've woken several times in the night, because they are waking from the lighter REM sleep. So no, a baby that wakes several times a night is not necessarily 'sleep deprived' if they are sleeping 11-12 hours in chunks.

Not that this is desirable, of course, because it means you are knackered, as I am

I think those of us who are still on the boat know that CC is an option, and have chosen not to use it.

We all have our reasons - and I for one do not judge others who want to use it, but I just cannot listen to my DD cry (even if it is short term pain for long term gain) when I know she will grow out of it in her own time.

I also know from reading lots around the subject, that babies who sleep through are most likely still sleeping in chunks and waking as much as they would if they were crying - but after sleep training they are able to self settle and do not wake you.

This would mean neither my DD nor other people's who sleep though are any more sleep deprived than each other. I would also say that my DD is too happy and chilled in the day to be showing any signs of sleep deprivation or over tiredness.

I was not really on this thread (or the boat) to get an answer to a "problem" but rather, wanted to share a hello and a wry smile about our little one's sleep habits. It is hard when you are knackered, but we all know there are things we could do, in terms of training, but we choose the longer road - for whatever reason - and wish to travel it with others who are doing the same thing.

Maybe others think I am being a martyr, but I am happy this way (if tired) because I want to be a parent who lets their little one sleep through in their own time.

We all just do our best don't we? Even if we do not agree or get to our destinations in the same way, we are all trying to do what we feel is the best thing for our little ones. It is OK that different babies are raised in different ways. Or at least I think it is.

Also - ahoy there Count! Aye aye Cap'n, hoist the main sail and swab the decks!

X-post JointheDots :)

it does get better but honestly it is easiest once you've just accepted that is the way it is. mine haev all been rubbish sleepers in one way or another. all stopped napping altogether at 18 months or so. the biggest improvement with dd was when she was old enough to get herself out of her bed and creep into ours without waking me up. so she still really wakes at night but at least I don't know anything about it. she used to bf at night til she was quite old - I can't remember how old funnily enough due to sleep deprivation no doubt - and that didn't help me with sleep but I wasn't bothered enough to do anything about it
hang on in there

Ho ho me hearties!

FWIW we tried a version of CC on the advice of a sleep consultant (I had/have mild PND related to exhaustion and sleep deprivation). DS screamed hysterically for an hour and a half before I stopped it - he was so distressed he was banging his head against the side of the cot :( and I genuinely thought he might hurt himself. From there we switched to gradual withdrawal, but even with that, DS screamed for an hour three nights running and his sleep got even worse, if that's possible - he went from being happy and relaxed during the day to grizzly and clingy because he was so knackered (one night he woke every 10-15 minutes between 3 and 5am). It took him (and me!) several weeks to recover.

Not saying any of these methods are wrong or bad per se but they don't work for every baby. DS is one of those ones that increases tension through crying - he just gets himself into a right state for some reason.

count and jointhedots very well put.

Hi Guys. Thanks for all the support. CC is not an option as I am with Zimm on this one. If you can do it then great but my personal thoughts on the matter would not allow me to go through with it. I am slowly learning to accept that this is the way things are and I just need to get through this somehow. DH is on the same page its just tough as he works away and does shifts so only 5 nights a month is he usually available to help but even then I get up as its just easier! Modern society is to blame for the way I feel because its just crap trying to justify your baby is normal cos she only sleeps 3 hours here and 3 there. I chose to BF as its my choice, and thats not for everyone and I want to help her learn to sleep not teach her to get on with it and cry. It's probably not going to get better anytime soon but hopefully I will learn to cope better and move on. She went to sleep at 7 pm and already has woken once! Not looking good again for tonight and I have been up since 5:30!!

We all just do our best don't we? Even if we do not agree or get to our destinations in the same way, we are all trying to do what we feel is the best thing for our little ones. It is OK that different babies are raised in different ways. Or at least I think it is.
I could not agree more.
Don't worry about justifying what you think is right for child OP, whatever you choose to do, there will always be people to eel you you do it wrong!

My first was like this. He started out horrific - dreadful colic for 5 months, hours of screaming every evening, it was torture. He's nearly 4 and still doesn't sleep well but that's due to a medical problem (and as he had surgery for it on Friday let's hope it's all going to change soon!). Over the years I have read every book and tweaked all sorts of aspects of his lifestyle to no avail, and shed buckets of tears.

My second is now 8 months. She doesn't sleep for more than 4 hours at a time at absolute best, and is probably on a scr with DS at that stage. I am breastfeeding and about to return to work and although I'm tired, this time I'm not expending any energy on seeking answers and trying to enforce change on a little baby. I'm sure that's helped me lots. It's much easier and I am enjoying her immensely. I know she'll get easier in time :)

That's good to hear Teapot. I'm not sure whether DH will let me we'll have another one at this rate so that gives me hope!

DS4 very suddenly just got bedtime. At 14 months . Halleluja!

This is after 3 older children who were variable sleepers but nowhere near as bad as he, rocking to sleep, singing to sleep, letting him sleep on me, BFing on demand, topping up with FF, not feeding on demand, trying him in a hammock rather than cot, co-cleeping, attended a sleep clinic, CC, and in desperation CIO (except he did not stop crying, so did not 'cry it out'). Nothing made any difference to him.

We have not changed a single thing of our bedtime routine, which has always been quite consistent: with having to get 4 boys to bed there has to be an Order to things in the evenings . And quite suddenly something just seems to have clicked: He now clearly recognises it's bedtime, has his milk, a quick cuddle, when I stand up to put him into his cots he kind of leans into it, assumes his sleep position wide awake and Goes To Sleep!

Do not be ashamed or defensive about your parenting. Although there are certainly things that can make sleep harder or more difficult to achieve, you cannot make a LO sleep. She will find a way in her own time. It is hideaous while is lasts though, huge sympathies.

We have now at most had maybe 1 nighttime wakening (from 3-6 until 2 weeks ago) and I am only just beginning to feel human again.

Thanks Teapot and pacificdogwood. Just trying to accept that this is the way she is and I really want her to accept change like you say. I know it's going to take time and just need to ignore the fact that everyone is in a rush to get her to sleep. MIL started again yesterday cos I commented we were up at 05:30 and she blamed me saying I have no routine. We do, bath, feed and bed by 7 pm every night. Know she doesn't believe but I then said why does it bother her so much cos it's not her who is awake every night and day. I know she is probably just thinking of me but I know she wants me to let her cry. Going to stay positive (hopefully) and think every day we get through is a milestone. All mums try and do their best and as already stated we all want the same - happy healthy babies. They are all different and society needs to look at the way we portray this. A baby who is a poor sleeper is not unhappy it's just the poor mum who is trying to get some shut eye!

Hello all. I am a veteran of the sleep nightmare threads. Dd2 is 8 months and we feel we have made progress getting to one feed and one other waking in the night. That's in the past week but before that it was a nightmare. I'm so sick of my mum people telling me I need to be a 'bit firm with her' or to try CC 'to teach her how to settle herself'. Although I'm not sure that crying herself to sleep would teach her anything . I don't see how it teaches them to self settle.

Anyway, many sympathies op, you just have to do what you feel comfortable with. It's easy to feel like it's your fault, especially when you read books describing things like 'accidental parenting' (what a load of bollocks). Feel free to come on one of the ongoing sleep threads for and sympathy.