What's going on - 20 week old just won't sleep at night...

[Ellieo]

Long one, sorry! DS was doing fine(ish) up to a few days ago. He was naturally waking for a dream feed around 10ish, then waking once at around 3am, feeding and going back to sleep till 7am, when he'd wake and gurgle happily in his cot till I came to get him. BUT over the last three nights, he's been waking randomly three or four times a night, times ranging from 8.30pm through the night to around 6.30am. Once awake NOTHING will settle him/stop him crying other than being put on my breast. This means that over the last three nights instead of having 2 night feeds, he's been having 4 or even 5 sometimes. My question is, why has he suddenly started doing this? And, more importantly, what should I be doing in the middle of the night to stop him crying? We keep everything very dark, quiet, uninteresting for him at night, so there's nothing for him to be up for. Any advice would be much appreciated.

growth spurt?

does it bother you feeding him? if its a question of a few minutes feed for a sleep I'd do it but I'd wait till he cried rather than just grumbled IYWIM

I don't mind feeding him, but the trouble is I'll feed him, put him back down to sleep, get into bed, then just as I'm about to fall asleep 5-10 mins later, he'll wake again and cry full on until I pick him up and breastfeed again. But then he'll only take a few sucks. I haven't started weaning yet - do you think he could be hungry?

they all do this about this age, just go bwith it and it will settle down.
it's really hard work though.
it is a bit early for weaninmg yet too, there's loads of arcived threads,
i'm busy with bf baby now, but sending sympathy and good vibes!

I'd say growth spurt - he needs more calories in the day to get through the night. When he does wake in the night i'd suggested just soothing him back to sleep - can he suck his thumb yet? or maybe a dummy? As long as he's getting enough in the day - he won't need anymore at night...

you could you let him sleep in your bed for a little then he won't disturb you as much?

don't be persuaded to start weaning him . there's far more calories in breasmilk so it is a misnomer that hungry babies need 'proper food'. Research has shown that is potentially detrimental to their future health to start weaning before 26 weeks

This is normal Ellieo. With my first 3 babies I started solids between 20 and 24 weeks. With my fourth I decided not to start solids until 26 weeks come hell or high water. She woke frequently for a few nights just as you describe. I just fed ahe at night and also tried to up daytime feeds. I found that the xtra feeds upped the milk supply then she settled again. Had |I done the same with her brothers they would have sttled too.
Bring him into bed so that you can doze and feed him at the same time.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It is really really hard, especially since he's stopped going down for his day naps as well - he used to be regular as clockwork, but he's gone completely off the rails adn it's a realy trial to get him to go down. I'm not going to be tempted to wean early, I don't think, I'll just have to go with the flow and see what happens. If it is a growth spurt, it's odd because he still doesn't completely finish his bottles(he has 2 7oz ones a day, the rest is breast).

We could have the same DS! First I thought it was leaking nappies and went up a size, then I thought it was the cold so added another blanket and a fleecy sleepsuit. No joy. I had just started to think that it must be an incipient cold (have just gone down with one myself and was assuming that he was tanking himself up with antibodies to fight it). But perhaps it's a growth spurt after all - he BF for England yesterday and I hoped that last night would be better than the previous several. But no! Slept in two hour stretches... between knackeredness and my cold, DS must be wondering who I am and what have I done with his lovely mummy!

Ellieo - you might want to stop the bottles during the day and breastfeed him instead. Could be that he is needing to up your milk supply by demanding more. That might be done by breastfeeding. Do you express at the times you give bottles?

Thanks Mears. No I don't express when I give the bottles. To be honest, I found expressing too exhausting and demoralising (it would take me over 30 mins to get 3oz or so). When I do breastfeed, there seems to be plenty of milk - he always comes off with milk dripping down his chin. But I take your point that maybe he needs more... What I find odd is that when he's awake during the day, he seems right as rain. Kathryn, ds had a chesty cough and a bit of snuffle last week, so I wonder if that might be part of it as well. Basically, I don't have a clue what's going on with him But thanks again for all the tips/support.

Just a thought but I had similar issues with my baby (now 4 months) and about a month ago I put him on a fixed routine. The routine is irrelevant as it depends on the age and weight of your baby. What it does mean is that I pretty much always know what is wrong with him. I can tell if I have overstimulated him during the day, too little sleep, etc. I know it will get hard again when I have to adapt his routine as he gets older but I have a much happier baby now.

I agree with Charbel, routine is vital in order to give your baby what she acctually wants and cut out most of the guess work, it takes a while to establish but is worth it.

That's what's confusing me really - he's been in a pretty good routine since he was about 7 weeks old, with variations along the way, so I always felt I knew more or less what was wrong. But this is just totally out of character and doesn't fit in with his routine at all. I'm hoping it's just a phase...

If you look at a few of the breast/bottle feeding threads you will see that a number of mums have had this problem of extra feeds at this stage. Babies do need extra calories but these are obtained from increased milk. Milk supply is increased by baby demanding more feeds. If you ride it out, things will settle again as other mums have found.

I was wondering - DS fed four times last night, before falling asleep at 2.30. And I really mean he fed! He gulped down his milk at all four of the feeds. And then he didn't wake up until 6am. He hadn't fed brilliantly during the day so I think he might be consuming his calories at night rather than during the day - he's very distractible. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get him to switch to feeding more during the day? It's not that I don't want him to wake up at all at night (although that would be absolute bliss!)- just to get back to every 3-4 hours, instead of every couple.

I tried feeding him today frequently to tank him up, but Tracy Hogg says that you should feed every 4 hours to make sure he takes enough at each feed. However, she's pretty rubbish on BF so I'm disinclined to take her word for it. What would you suggest?

Hi there. We had exactly the same for about eight weeks (check out "Week 19 in the lack of sleep house" thread for details).

At the time ds was waking about two hourly throughout the night, and we tried pretty much everything, including speaking to a sleep consultant.

About eight weeks after it had started (I know this is not what you want to hear) ds went back to his dreamfeedish and one feed at about 3 pattern.

For what it is worth, although we made various changes before he got back to a better sleeping pattern, my instinct is that it was just a developmental phas that he went through and there wasn't much we could have done to affect it.

In terms of trying to up feeding during the day I tried and tried but had no luck - I'm not sure how you convince a baby to eat more than he wants at the time. During the night, I tried to remove him from the breast after a certain number of minutes - first ten, then eight, etc. but once it went below about 5 minutes ds just changed his latch so that it was really hard to break the latch and then went bananas when I tried.

It all got too distressing, so I decided to wait it out, and although it took eight weeks I'm really glad I did.

Sorry - bit of a long post. Really sympathise with your lack of sleep and hope it passes soon.

or even developmental phase.

ahem

could be the change in weather, is he warm enough.

Or try lying him down at night on a piece of clothing you have worn.

I guess he could be cold - am always terrified of him overheating so he probably always has one blanket less than would be comfortable. But each time I felt him last night (all 6 times!) he seemed to be quite warm. However, will put him in a sleepsuit under his fleecy suit tonight and see whether that improves things.

Lummox, thank you for the link. It's helpful to see that this happens to lots of people and you just have to get through it. Just another 3 weeks to go then.... oh joy....

Yes, thanks for that Lummox (I think!). I'm really really hoping it's a developmental phase too - Kathryn, I really sympathise with you, but I'm also glad I'm not the only one going through it . Last night was hellish. All seemed to be going well as DS went down at 7 without a whimper, fed at 1030, then back down no probs. Then he woke at 3am, and after that all hell let loose - every time I tried to put him back down after being on the breast, he woke up after about 5 mins and just wanted to be held or suckle on the nipple (not really feed). This went on till nearly 6am!!!!! Although I do cc during the day (and it nearly always works, in that he only ever cries for maybe 1 or 2 mins), I just can't bear to do it in the middle of the night. It just sounds so loud and distressing. Ah well, only another 6.5 weeks to go.. Am trying to be light-hearted about it, but really it's like Chinese water torture

Lummox, I've just re-read the Week 19 thread. Meant to ask - did you think it was worth consulting with the "sleep lady"? Am really feeling at my wits end, so am considering calling in outside help.

Really sympathise with you ellieo, have a very similar problem and just knowing other people are experiencing the same thing makes me feel much better as I kept thinking what am i doing wrong!!! Hope things improve soon

As a result of feeding alot during the day, does he then feed less than usual the following day?

therefor needing to make it up again in the night etc?

make sure he has 5 good feeds in the day (between 7ish am and 10.30pm) and if he needs more at night then let him, but make sure he gets it in the day as well!

good luck!

Thanks for the sympathy Banthambabe! Nannyl - he normally doesn't feed so well in the morning. Not that interested in his 7am feed. But in the afternoon, he picks up again and seems very hungry. I'm fitting in 5 feeds a day (sometimes, like yesterday, it's even 6 cos he seemed so hungry in the afternoon). So he shouldn't be hungry in the night...but he doesn't seem to realise that!

I too am going through a similar problem. DD is 20 weeks old and is now exclusively formula fed. She has 6 feeds a day between 7am and 10.30pm. During the night she wakes up anywhere between 2.30am and 6am. If she wakes at 6am I get her up but before that I was feeding her 4oz but after structuring her 10.30pm feed I stopped the 4oz as I realised that she wasn't drinking all of it, never gulped it down in a hungry fashion and would only have about 1-2 oz of milk at 7am the next morning. She still wakes up every night between these times and now I use any other method but feeding her. I try a dummy, she may suck her thumb and sometimes if its nearer 6am I'll bring her to bed with me (a sure way to get her to settle). Getting her back to sleep whatever time can take anything between 5 minutes to 2 hours sometimes with a bit of leaving her to it to settle herself. I am exhausted but am just hoping that she will eventually settle as I too am trying to hold off weaning until 26 weeks. I don't know if what I'm doing is the right thing but I really don't want to resort back to feeding her as I am sure she doesn't need this.