13 mo waking in night..What's gone wrong??

[foxybrownlove]

LO has a fairly active day and is a good feeder, used to be a good sleeper. Now waking 2/3 times in the night. Usually just put in bed with us but now want to stop this. Also hard to settle at bedtime, stands up in cot and refuses to lie down.

I need to take a hardline approach now as already have another DD who is a terrible sleeper.

How do you self soothe and help your baby sleep through the night. Sanity is being tested and getting depressed with lack of sleep.

Can anyone help? Thanks

Maybe teeth???

However I can't offer advice as I have a 4yo who is finally (mostly) sleeping through, and an 18m son who wakes twice a night. Some children are just like that. However if he has been good before he probably will again. Not sure a hardline approach is needed at 13 months though - still a baby.

Thanks Pagan, not sure it's teeth as he is teething gelled to the eyeballs!

I think I need to be tougher as both kids are terrible sleepers, eldest has just woke from the usual night terrors, DH just in with youngest as DD woke him up.

Love my kids but they are seriously driving me nuts in the night

Sympathies - know all about the driven nuts

My kids used to do the tag team thing - one would wake, get them back to sleep, the other would wake, repeat ad-infinitum

They are MUCH better now

we are currently in between rooms, going to be a long night...

does anyone have any tips or suggestions? he wont settle unless in our bed when he wakes, screams when try to put him back in his cot....arrrgggh!

Hello foxybrownlove - I feel your pain! (Although I have only 1 DD so suspect I feel only a tiny fraction of your pain.)

I too have a 13-month-old who has suddenly started waking in the night - just once, but for 2-3 hours. During that time there are acrobatics. I think it's developmental - or started out that way, three weeks ago, a little after she had started walking - but my hopes that it is just a phase are waning as it's been going on for three weeks now.

Because I have a bad back we too brought her into bed with us for a while as that was the quickest solution. But doing this for some weird reason exacerbates my back problem and because DD is a noisy little wriggler it keeps DH awake for hours. The fact that she will settle so much quicker in our bed is also making me query whether this is (still) developmental.

Alas for you I have no useful suggestions to offer as everything I have tried bar the bringing into bed has not worked. However, she doesn't scream when going into her cot and does go down to sleep initially well. Perhaps you need to break this down into different parts? So, for now, could you try cuddling him until he's asleep and then move back to cuddling him until he's ALMOST asleep?

Oh, how many naps does he have during the day? Going to sleep at night definitely improved for us when DD moved from two naps to one. (Until this started.)

Meanwhile, when DD has her daily nap I shall have a look and see if I can find any more advice on here. She's currently trying to disembowel my mouse.

Hope you're not feeling too awful today. :)

Hello again foxybrownlove, hope you're OK.

I am now sans DD and having a look for more information. So, it seems that there IS a sleep regression at around this age if you subscribe to the Wonder Weeks theory. See here and here. If this is the case then it WILL pass, especially as you say that your DS used to be a good sleeper.

This is good news for me with just my one DD as I think I'll try and stick it out. However, I'm not sure it's very helpful for you as you seem to be at the end of your tether.

Was your DD always a bad sleeper, or was she a good one who 'turned to the dark side'? If the former then I would be reluctant to assume the worst in your DS's case. If you look around here there seems to be a wide divergence in individual babies - I found this a useful discussion.

My big fear and yours I think is that not doing something 'stronger' will somehow lead to bad habits. But this may not be the case, if this is a sleep regression. Is your DS walking yet? Does he sleep in a cot in your room or in his own room?

If it's possible for you to keep bringing DS into your bed for the next few weeks, then I would do that as it will give you all more sleep. Then after say three or four weeks try putting him back down into his cot when he wakes. I did this with DD a few nights ago and she wasn't pleased but I stayed with her and when she realised she wasn't coming in with us, after a bit of grumping she was fine (if you call tossing around and going on all fours for another half an hour after that fine...).

Bedtime sounds a bit of a nightmare - could you work on this first (if you're later bringing him into your bed)? I know the Baby Whisperer says you should keep laying them down when they stand up in bed, no matter how long it takes, can't say this really works for DD but does seem to work for lots of other people.

Hope some of this might help. Post again with how you're getting on. Lack of sleep is a terrible thing so hugs to you.

Hi there sprout, thanks so much for the the links will have a look and see if there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good to know I'm not the only one, share your pain...hoping all the fresh air being outdoors will help them both sleep tonight, can only hope...

He isnt yet walking but trying to, he used to be an ok sleeper in that he sleeps better than his sister did with only one wake up, she still is a nightmare sleeper - not settling before bedtime and then night terrors, I;m delirious by morning! Relieved it could be sleep regression and as you say this soon shall pass, I really hope so.

It's so much easier bringing him in with us as at least we get some sleep but think he is pulling a fast one as if i move him back he'll cry.

Sorry for going on, my friends all have perfect kids who are in bed by 7pm, mine are two hours after that, feel like such a bad mum! I'm too soft..

Thanks again, keep in touch with sleep updates x

Hello foxy, how are you getting on?

Got all excited and smug about sleep regression theory (DP is VERY sceptical) after DD slept all Friday night. But last night she was back to her usual tricks, bouncing about and trying to play. And she's started resisting naps and at bedtime too. I was losing faith a bit, but then decided that I was probably trying to get her to sleep too early and wasn't paying enough attention to when she was tired.

(Although I'm still losing faith a bit. Could it really just be a passing phase? Could it be as 'easy' as waiting it out when thousands of baby training books are sold every year?)

(But then my mother, who is the opposite of soft, said that my brother woke at two every morning for the day, and then it moved to four, and then to six, and then he just grew out of it - and now he's a lazy sod - so maybe...)

Your evenings and nights sound hideous, I really do feel for you. Perhaps your little boy is just struggling with all the changes in his body and wants to feel close to you? It might not be a fast one. His bedtime does sound late but if he's standing up in his cot you can't actually force him to sleep, can you? (Oh that we could!) What time do you start putting him to bed?

'The No Cry Sleep Solution' by Elizabeth Pantley has some gentle tips in it for helping habitual bad sleepers to establish proper sleep routines. I know other people on here recommend 'Healthy Sleep, Happy Child' but I have never seen it. Although it doesn't sound as if you're in much of a state to read!

And your poor DD with the night terrors, that sounds a real problem. Have you taken her to the doctor's? Maybe they could help?

I'm sure I'm making really ignorant suggestions here; I just wish there was something helpful I could do! x

Hi there, thanks very much for your well wishes. I hope your DD is good for you tonight. What eventually tires her out in the middle of the night? I feel also for you.

Still at end of my tether, madam is STILL awake, we start bedtime at 7pm as we usually dont get in till late from work. Do keep thinking one option is to feed them in car and then put straight to bed but then will have no real time with them...dilemnas..

Going to have a look at the No cry book, looked to on wonder weeks and looking at their posts, this sleep regression may take some time. I'm trying lavendar oil as seems to help him drift off, maybe you could try that in the night too?

Keep wondering what activities help babies/children fall asleep other than fresh air??

Happy holidays anyway sprout, we're in this together and it WILL get better...I hope! Best wishes

foxybrown! Happy holidays to you too, sorry not to have replied before but I haven't had a chance to get to the computer.

Well, things have been up and down here. We had one more night of sleeping all night, followed by a night of being awake for several hours, and since then DD has changed to waking twice a night, but being much easier to get to sleep. Alas, she is also being very resistant to going to sleep some evenings too.

I am losing faith again in the wonder weeks theory, at least as it applies to DD. This phase has been going on for over one calendar month now, quite a bit longer than they claim. Once again I'm worrying that my actions are contributing to it, but then maybe I'm feeling stressed because my DP is a firm believer that a few nights of tears will sort her out.

With the two-hour wakings I'd cuddle her for a bit and then put her back in her cot and she'd just wriggle around and if she stood up I'd lie her back down again. Basically she'd just tire herself out and that was the only thing that really got her to sleep in the end - not great. Sometimes she or I would get frustrated and I'd cuddle her again until she was pretty much asleep (this would only work after an hour or so of bouncing and wiggling). Now that she's going back to sleep more quickly I just cuddle her to sleep.

So I have been (a) inconsistent and (b) failing to encourage DD to settle herself to sleep (which I know she can do) by cuddling her. Not terribly good.

I wonder if this new phase of waking is connnected to my being out most mornings now (Thursdays are the exceptions) which she is taking very badly at the moment (apparently she keeps going to the gate and crying while I'm out ).

Anyway, from tonight on I'm going to continue to go and sit with her but I am not going to take her out of her cot. I think I'll continue to lie her down when she stands up (not sure if this is good or not).

Lavender oil is a brilliant idea, I shall try it.

How are you getting on? 7 pm does seem on the late side to start getting ready for bed for 13 months (not sure how old your daughter is) to me, anyway, as that's the time I'm usually putting DD down to sleep after her supper, play/bath, stories. Maybe feeding him in the car might help, and then getting him ready for bed as soon as you get in - it would mean less time with him for now but you'd still be spending bath and bedtime with him and in a little while he'll be old enough to go later. It might be worth a try. I really don't know what to suggest about your DD though.

Am a bit scared that none of the experienced ladies are commenting any more, I don't feel that my advice comes from a particularly knowledgeable place.

Must go. Write again and soon foxy, hope you're OK. :)

I'm at work so just a quick one but DS has become a monster, he was up from 7.30 till 1am, only fell asleep in our arms and then moved to cot or bed he screamed hysterically. I'm surprisingly alert today (thanks Starbucks coffee) but very frustrated.

I share your pain about worrying whether we are perpetuating the problem so hard though. Good luck tonight, maybe your DD will tire herself out tonight? If it goes well for you, I might take the tough approach, start tomorrow night whilst we have the bank holiday 4 days....

Does anyone else have any suggestions for some desperate mum? Please?

Bloody hell foxy, how on earth are you coping? I think I might have thrown DD out of the window if that happened to me! (Well, maybe I wouldn't have.)

DD out of sorts today and didn't have a proper nap so had to have a second one because she was still tired and then wouldn't go to sleep for a while but is now I hope sweetly dreaming. She has had a bit of a temperature and I spotted a new tooth creeping forward so this may be the culprit. Feeling a bit guilty now after getting grumpy with her last night.

My problem is not anything like as bad as yours, and DD doesn't mind waking up and being in her cot as long as I stay in the room while she antics about. I am going to start tonight with not taking her out of the cot although I may well put my hand on her, she seems to like that, and then when that settles down edge towards moving further and further away until I'm out of the door. There will probably be a bit of angry crying but I don't reckon she'll be distressed. But already I'm feeling bad because of that tooth...

I guess you have to choose between a gradual and more gentle approach which will take a long time to kick in, and being more hardline. I read on another thread someone's wise comment that sometimes we have to be firm and strong even though it upsets us, for the ultimate good of our children. Your DS is not a tiny baby any longer and he knows that you love him and will always be there for him. As long as you're not leaving him alone and sobbing for hours (as if you would!) I do not think it will harm him. BUT you must stick with whatever you decide because if you go halfway with it and then give in it will be worse than if you'd never started - so know yourself well.

Good luck foxy, surely tonight can only be better than last night? [csmile]

PS Fuck forgot the lavender oil!

Hello foxy, are you still alive? Are you coping?

Things have not gone terribly well here. DD started waking more and more at night and wouldn't go to sleep without me. For her long wake-up, she would cry if I moved out of her sight but start to play and even sing (that made me laugh, bless her) if I was by the cot. Both of us were knackered and my back was starting to get bad again.

So we've started CC. I feel horrible about it, of course nobody likes doing it. We did it last night and it took an hour and a half before she slept (she wasn't crying all that time though!). The first five or ten minutes were the worst, I was going in almost as soon as I was out the door, and once she managed to throw herself out of the cot, thank God she didn't hurt herself. I was crying too, it just feels such a dreadful thing to do, but she really needs her sleep.

Once she fell asleep she slept without waking once until 7.30.

Annoyingly, DP started to do CC with her daytime nap as well, I think it's a lot for her to cope with but since he began it yesterday feel compelled to be consistent. This morning he tried for an hour to get her to sleep and then gave up. So after lunch I had to do it again with her, it took 40 minutes and then she only slept for 30.

I am going to give it three days only to see if there's any improvement. The only thing giving me hope is during the day she seemed more herself than she's been for ages, not tired and grumpy as she normally is these days, so at least the CC doesn't seem to be affecting her in that way.

I hope things are going well for you. ;)

Hi there Sprout, I've been busy with the easter and bank holidays, sorry not been replying...good to have our own personal updates on this thread (maybe we are helping others who are reading our updates too )...

I am with you on controlled crying approach, I just need to get the courage to go through with it! He has been almost leaping out of cot, so guess what, he is here in my bed as I'm writing this, I'm so bloody knackered! At least DD is being good, no wake ups from her but I dont want to tempt fate!

If you keep me posted on your progress I may do it! Sounds like you had success the other night, I hope she is good again for you tonight, fingers crossed!

Best wishes and good luck with cc. Oh ps, did you try lavendar oil? It seems to working with DD, just need to sort the DS out now!

Hope you enjoyed the holidays foxy. And hope DD is settling down into better sleeping, at least that means you just have one to deal with.

I don't think you'll want to read this... After the not-terribly-successful nap, we carried on, put her down to sleep that evening as usual, fine, but she woke up at 9.30 pm screaming. DP calmed her down and settled her in her cot and then we carried on with the CC - and had to abandon it after ten minutes - she was so distressed, hysterical, even hard-man DP couldn't bear it and said it was cruel and we must stop. And I think that if you stop, you have to really stop altogether.

That night she couldn't settle down to sleep so in the end she came and slept in with me, and even then she was still awake when I fell asleep and woke again in the night (she kindly kicked my head). Yesterday her nap was fine but then she woke again at 9.30 screaming and nothing, not even cuddling, would get her back to sleep, she kept forcing herself awake and crying, so after two hours I took her to bed with me again. Today she wouldn't sleep for her nap, she'd doze but as soon as I moved she'd wake and cry or scream; we finally got her to sleep after an early lunch but she only slept for 25 minutes and then woke up crying and sat up.

So we have managed not only to fail to solve the sleep problem, but to traumatise our baby and make everything worse, we're back to square -10,000 now. I feel evil for subjecting her to it, and useless as it seems I don't stick at anything for long enough - maybe if I'd given the gradual withdrawal a few more weeks it would have worked. That's what I'm aiming to do now - get back to a state where I can start doing the gradual withdrawal. I don't really know what else to do. Poor DD is overtired and whingey. I feel whingey too.

Just because it didn't work for us, of course, doesn't mean it might not work for you. I expect your DS is not as indulged and coddled as our poor DD - I think it was just too extreme and too fast for her.

Lavender oil gives me hope though. Good luck foxy with whatever you do, and write more here. I want to know that everything works out for you (and what you do to get it to work out!), and I agree, it's good for anyone in the future who finds this thread. x

Evening Sprout, did you try lavender oil? How are you getting on? Your last few days sound traumatic, hope she is ok now?

Tried cc for one day (didn't read your post until tonight) and like you found it far too distressing, DS was hysterical and my nerves couldn't take it! We're trying gradual withdrawal, he's been with excitable gparents today so hoping for a good night....he has gone back to better sleeping habits, still hates the cot mind but it DD who is the nightmare child again.

We will have to keep reminding ourselves that it will get better and by the time they start school, it will zonk em out! We can but dream can't we??

Hello foxy!

We did try lavender oil, I burned it but am not sure that it made much difference...

Things are MUCH better here. First of all, DD seemed to recover from the 'horror' of CC and stopped fighting sleep and crying if I so much as stopped touching her.

Then, at the suggestion of my parents, we took DD to the doctor's on Friday morning. He's given us a mild herbal sedative to help her cope with anxiety and relax, some Vitamin D and a syrup for teething.

On Friday night she woke only at 11.30 pm, went back to sleep quite easily, and 2-4 am. The second waking was more like her usual habit, in other words she didn't seem frightened or needy, just restless. Then last night she slept from 7 until 5 - only I didn't realise it was 5, I thought it was 2, so rushed in with the teething syrup and sat with her until she slept again - it only took an hour! (She woke again after about an hour but that was fine.)

Now we're better rested I'm returning to the gradual withdrawal method and I am finding that if I move the chair a bit further away from her than before and concentrate on being as boring as possible - I don't even lie her back down when she stands up - she seems to settle more easily than when I was hanging over her shushing and patting. We haven't had any tears either. She's fine during the day but wants her dummy a lot which I think is a sign of painful gums.

The stuff from the doctor isn't a long-term solution but it's giving us all enough sleep for DD and I to practise gradual withdrawal and self-settling. I'm hoping that in a week or so she won't need the sedative but by that time will be getting used to drifting off to sleep in her cot. As you say, we can but dream!

REALLY glad that your DS's sleeping habits are improving but what a pity about your DD. I'd definitely recommend seeing a doctor if you think that either of your children has, as DD had, become really overtired and anxious.

(Bear in mind though that only 2 days have passed, maybe I'll be on here weeping in a few more.)

Hugs to you all :)

Hello foxy - are you still alive? :)

Reasonably good news here. Had a long wake-up last night but the previous two nights DD slept through.

The gradual withdrawal is going well for her naps. At the moment I give her a cuddle until she's dozy then put her in her cot and sit a little distance away. She's always up like a jack-in-the-box but is getting better at settling down and going to sleep. The first time it took over an hour; now, a few days later, it's about 15 minutes. May be able to move the chair back a bit soon! I cannot believe that something is actually beginning to work.

Obviously it's having no impression on her at nights when she wakes up but I'm resigned to that and will move further away even though she's still awake.

So that's it for now!