how do i calm an overtired baby?

[vmcd28]

Ds2 (17 weeks) sleeps approx 11 hrs at night, straight through. I know - what do I have to complain about?! Well, he naps well some days and hellishly other days.
The afternoons seem to be the worst. Eg yesterday I tried to put him down for a late pm nap as he was clearly tired, but it was still over 3hrs til bedtime. He just wouldn't settle. He kicked and screamed and cried, bit amongst all this he was frantically sucking his thumb and trying to sleep. But couldn't. So started going mad again. Dh ended up taking him for a 30min walk, but he still didn't sleep! He was wired to the moon by this time! It was now getting too near bedtime, so tried to keep him distracted and got him ready for bed etc.
He was clearly overtired and couldn't relax. Does anyone have any tips as to how to relax him the next time? I'm usually good at spotting his sleepy cues but afternoons can be a big problem.

His very loose day is as follows-
Somewhere between 6 and 7.30 wakes
Fed
Bouncy chair or gym
Down to sleep roughly 80-90 mins later. He can sleep for up to 3hrs. Should I wake him or leave him as long as he needs?
Then he's fed again, activity time, then ready to sleep again in about 80 mins. He'll sleep around 1-2 hrs.
Then fed, activity. This is where the problem usually starts. He then struggles to go down to sleep. So he can end up awake from 2pm kicking and crying etc.
Bed is anytime between 6.20 and 7 pm.

Any thoughts...?

Have you tried sitting in silence in the dark? Even if you end up in the cupboard under the stairs??!
Have you tried holding him tightly down you breast bone?
That is a lot of napping. Some just don't need them, some do.

Do you have a car?

I found that a short car drive always sent mine off.

sling - is a godsend as yu can just get on with doing what you need to do and invariably theyre calmed by the closeness and movement.

We also invested in a baby swing which was fantastic.

I'd wake him earlier from his morning sleep - say about 90-120 mins max - then see if he sleeps longer in the afternoon (aim for 2 - 2 1/2 hours)

sounds like he needs a little cat nap at about 4.30ish to get him through til bedtime.

how about a walk with a muslin over the pushchair to block out any stimulation? used to work for dc's sometimes.

Great, thanks for all the suggestions. I always forget we have a sling cos we don't need it, but I'll try it if this happens again. Re the car, he usually sleeps in it if he's tired but often wakes the second I stop, even at traffic lights sometimes. :)
This afternoon he was really grumpy but I got him to sleep eventually, with persevering with cuddles and singing and pupd till he drifted off.

X

Music always calms my DS. When he's crying because he's overtired, DH tends to bump up the music and it works a treat!

when DS was that bad, (screaming thrashing about etc, I pinned him to my tummy (cradles in my arms) and swayed gently stood up but had a tight hold on him humming a lullaby, usually worked within about 20 mins but those 20 mins would be hell.

I'd cut back his morning nap to less than 90 minutes in the hope of him going longer at lunchtime. At this age my DD1 went through a phase of screaming for a couple of hours at bedtime - we sorted it by making sure she had a good (2-2.5 hour minimum) nap at lunchtime and then by not letting her sleep after 3pm. Bedtime was between 6 and 7, depending on when she looked tired.

I personally would not go the sling route - when my children went into meltdown carrying them around so they could get even more overstimulated was not a good move. Darkened room, white noise, these things brought them down from the ceiling. Mine were rather (ahem) highly strung though...

Right, I am no expert on sleep (5 mo still wakes 4-6 times a night) but calming a baby I have one trick- get your birthing ball out!

We find bouncing gently with our ball against the wall and ds either upright on lying in our arms works wonders. Aim for 200 bounces, it calms him and me.

Antidote great idea!! I'll be trying to find the birthing ball tonight!

Rancer thanks for the advice, I'll try other things before going for the sling. Ds2 occasionally gets more stimulated if I pick him up too often if he's already crying, so he might not settle in the sling either. I'll try it if the other things don't work though.

David I know what you mean about it being hell. If I cradle ds2 he thinks I'm going to feed him so he gets more annoyed, so cradling him doesn't work for us, unfortunately. And I can't stand him screaming in my ear if he's on my shoulder - it really winds me up. :) But thanks for the suggestion.

Matana he likes me singing to him so I'll try music, good idea!

I agree that a shorter morning nap would be helpful, BUT I'm not sure how to stop him being really grumpy / whiny until the next nap - he's really not good at coping when he's tired. He struggles to go longer than 70 mins before getting grouchy and rubbing his eyes, bless him :)

Antidote, that is so clever!! What I would have given to know about the birthing ball trick 3 years ago when dd had us exhausted with colic, we had a ball but were too obliterated with tiredness to come up with that

since then we've had ds who like yours vmcd28 always went for a good 11 hrs or so at night but wasn't so good with day naps, I'd be careful, anytime we got him to have a good sleep in the day he didn't go for so long at night.

Of course we also had the problem of dd always waking him during the day.

Hi again, he obviously needs lots of sleep (am v jealous about your nights!!). During the day I find naps get progressively harder as the day goes on with our dd (18wo). She'll sleep anywhere for the morning one, needs a bit of encouragement for lunchtime and then will only ever do 30 mins in the afternoon (usually pram or car) and is then almost too tired to make it through to bedtime, bath is often quite short if she's getting grumpy!

I don't have any great advice cos am still struggling with her (and don't even get me started on the nights!!!) but have you tried keeping the afternoons generally quiet and calm, doing more activity in the mornings when he sleeps more easily? Maybe he finds it harder to wind down later in the day?
I would be reluctant to cut his morning nap down too much as he obviously needs it and I am beginning to think that we probably all meddle a bit too much with our LOs natural rhythms. What about bed earlier?

Gummy, that's a great idea about keeping afternoons calm. I honestly think he's ready for his looong sleep at around 6pm but I'm trying to discourage that - dh would never see him during the week, and I'm sure he'd wake earlier than he does, which is quite early enough!

Maybe the clocks changing this weekend will help with this