Sleep training first night - I feel terrible!

[blackcurrants]

DS is 8 months old and hasn't ever been a good sleeper. Used to wake every 2 hours, then it went to every 3/4, then back to 2, then every 45 minutes for a few days (argh) and now is back somewhere between 2 and 3.

We've co-slept a bit, and now I have his cot set up with a single bed attached to it in 'his' room, and I start the night in our bedroom with DH, then go into DS when he wakes and either come back to our room or stay in the single bed, depending on how knackered I am. I BF him back to sleep, so sometimes drift off in the single bed.

I need him to wake less, I work and need more sleep. The plan is to send DH in to rock, shush, sing, offer dummy - frankly, anything DH thinks is best - but not me and therefore no boob.

DS went down to sleep (nursing) at 7pm. It's 8.20 and he woke up at 7.45, cried, I went in and fed him for 10 mins (it's only comfort sucking) and then crept out again. Now it's 8.20 and he's just woke again, and DH has gone in with a dummy and is rocking him and sssssshing.

DS is screaming his little head off and I feel so :(
I KNOW I could go in there and offer him a boob but I also know that at the moment he can't sleep without my help and the poor boy might get more sleep if there's no boob on offer.

Deeply conflicted about it as we've never left him to cry and don't want to. I think this approach could work - even if it means he wants a cuddle or a rock rather than boob, it would help! - but I hate, hate, hate hearing him scream.
PFB of me, probably - but argh! Someone tell me I'm not a monster!

oh blackcurrants :( I really feel for you. Our DS' are about the same age and we have the same sort of problem.
I'm so sorry I can't really advise but I'm adopting you as my 'argh I'll never get to sleep without my baby' buddy.
DS used to feed to sleep and go down ok, wake a few times but shush and pop the dummy in and he would go back-until anywhere between 12 and 4 then it's in bed with us. Personally co sleeping just doesn't suit me, mainly because I feel sandwiched between DP and DS and I just like my personal space. I don't think DS sleeps very well either- is just me?
Last night I've fed him and then popped in cot and let him cry for a short while, go back in and he stopped. Put him back down shush him and leave and repeat. I ended up patting him off then just as I thought I'd done it, he blooming starts wailing again! Picked him up and shushed then he fell asleep in my arms and I put him down. Couple of brief wakings but stayed in cot until 6/7ish then came in with us until half 8!
Tonight pretty much the same, took him 45 minutes to finally fall asleep. I think he could be teething again- hands in mouth almost pulling on his gums so teething granules and Calpol.
Will let you know how the night goes in the morning.

Sorry for epic post, I like you have no idea if I'm doing the right thing and just need some peace. Your DH sounds an utter star. Sadly mine isn't too helpful tbh! I've always found it helpful to read others stories, very sorry if you don't!
Good luck tonight! I think we just have to perserve?

Hi Pipplin - yep, I think we just have to. Hard isn't it?

I've gone through a big old drama about my guilt and my pain and what a terrible mother I am (such a dramallama today) and now I'm just going to grimly see it through. I'm going to keep telling myself that he's never alone, he's never REALLY screaming without being picked up, and he's going to work out how to fall asleep without a breast or dummy. We're doing this for HIS good, not cos we love it. And that's how it goes.

DH is a star, a diamond, and all other bright twinkly things. Some of my mum friends are amazed at how much he does with DH, and I'm pretty hard-nosed- I make sure he's doing about half of all of it. Why not? It's his son.
But the part I love the most about parenting with DH is how much he LOVES DS. That's when I think he's as wonderful as can be.

that should read 'how much he does with DS', obviously.

I suppose part of my "he does it and I do it and we share it" setup comes from me having to go back to work when DS was only a month old. I've never been the one at home who knows best how these things happen. Which is handy, and has equalized some of the part where I spend more time with DS cos he's EBF.

Aargh DS has coughed and woke himself up. DH is in there, shushing away. I must get this sodding marking done.

blackcurrants for you.

With the 45min naps I was told to do whatever it took to get my DS back down, and it's the only time to intervene before they're fully awake, because they don't have the same drive to resettle that they do at night

TBH if you're all finding it traumatic to do then it might be worth abandoning the sleep training for now and trying again in a few weeks. The people who gave me my plan said if you don't see any improvement in 3 days then stop and try again another time.

The way we've done it (and DS's sleep so far is massively improved) was to do shush-pat in the cot for daytime naps, but still picked him up and rocked him for nightwakings, until he was happily settling in his cot during the day. Then we moved on to settling in the cot at night, that way us and DS knew he could settle without being picked up. If he's not looking like going to sleep and he's getting worked up after 20-30mins then I'll pick him up and rock him until he's very drowsy and then put him down. Most of the time he'll then settle the rest of the way off in his cot, which he never used to do before.

Hi all, am reading this thread with interest.

Any advice/support for me?! I have a gorgeous 4 month old DS. I did a mixture of Shush-pat/Tizzie Hall advice to sort his daytime sleeps and after 10 days of mixed results, he is really good in the day now.

Nights have never been bad: he goes down for 7pm every night, grizzles, gets with the programme pretty quicky. Dreamfeed 10.30. Then he starts to stir, mostly in his sleep, but not always, around 3-4am. I really don't think he's hungry as he doesn't cry, just make the usual resettling between cycles fuss. So I shush pat. Last night only took a few minutes.

BUT he's then waking again around 5. Most mornings. This is the time of morning I find hardest to settle him. This morning, for example, he whined and grizzled for ages. DH and I took turns shush patting, but no progress. DH changed his nappy. Put him back. Nada. 6.30 rolled around and we were all wide awake. I fed him at 6.50, when usually we'd have a 7am feed.

DH thinks we should feed him then, around 5 when he wakes. I still maintain he's not hungry - but I know feeding him would mean more sleep for all of us.

Am I doing the wrong thing trying to resettle him? Should I feed him? I feel like a bad mother. I don't want to deprive him but neither do I want to set him up thinking if he protests for long enough he'll get fed.

Help!!

Blackcurrants, I agree with bunny - the daytime naps are the only time you should rush in when you hear him stirring. Are you always consistent when trying to resettle him? Ie never feeding, never a dummy, singing quietly/soft music playing etc?
My ds sometimes prefers not to get picked up - it sometimes makes him more annoyed. Also, if he gets very upset or angry when I'm trying to settle him, it's usually because he's already overtired. Sometimes I have to pick him up and hold him in front of me, look him in the eye and say firmly, "ok, that's enough!" to kind of snap him out of it. It does usually work too.

Theotherhand, didn't the clocks changing make any difference to your ds? I can only suggest trying to gradually push his bedtime a little later to see if he'll sleep a little later. We have spells where ds sleeps til 8am then spells where he wakes at 5.50am. Haven't seen any reason why it changes. But if your ds doesn't seem hungry, I def wouldn't feed him, in case he turns it into a new habit and then always wakes early for a feed. If I were you I'd go to bed a bit earlier for now, expecting him to wake early, then keep trying to shush him back to sleep. If you can't it won't be the end of the world cos you've had enough sleep. It won't be forever.

4 month olds still need feeding when they ask. The are tool little to last through the night without food - their tummies are still tiny.

Why make life difficult for yourself? If a little baby wakes an asks for food, feed it!

The solution which gets everyone back to sleep as quickly as possible is the best solution!

Seeker, my 4mo sleeps 12-13 hrs without food, and many others do too, so saying that they can't last that long is ridiculous. Forcing them to have no food if they're hungry is wrong. But I guarantee that the majority of parents know by 4mo if their baby is hungry or not. Waking does not mean the baby must be hungry. And I completely disagree that he should be fed to sleep if he's not actually hungry.

Well, I wouldn't have tried any sleep training till now, to be honest. I considered it at 6 months (having been told that he couldn't be expected to make it through the night before then, and not wanting him to be hungry) and I"ve always been of Seeker's mind about this: whatever works to get me and him back to sleep is A-Ok! That said, my strategy was to waft a boob at him and it's meant that here we are, trying to persuade him he doesn't need it, at 8 months and 25lbs of baby...

Anyway - good news! Last night DS slept from 6pm (minor grizzle at 8.30, shushed and rocked back to sleep) till 3am, when he woke because he was suddenly incredibly snotty and couldn't breathe. He then took a lot of putting back down because we couldn't work out why he was poiiinging back awake the minute we lay him down, then we realised his nose was stuffing up as he lay flat, so had to faff around with the humidifier and the baby olbas oil at 3am, which was hard to do quietly and calmly.
BUT! he slept again from around 3.30 till 5am, when he had his first feed of the day. I don't mind that, tbh, as he has to get up at 6am having already eaten, so it works pretty well him having a 5am wakeup. At weekends I feed him then and he sleep again till 7-8ish, so..

Yeah, success! What's more heartening is not just the sheer hours of solid sleep (because I kept waking in a panic that DS hadn't woken yet, and hovered by the door listening - so I didn't actually get more sleep, and may have got less! Aah, silly...) BUT the fact that twice he sort of yelped and snorted abit for less than a second and THEN WENT BACK TO SLEEP all by himself!

It's SO great! I'm sad he had to cry the first night, but oh WOW he managed to get himself back to sleep for seven hours straight - it's a wonder and a miracle and a real, real, real relief. Not much crying (except for the snot episode) last night at ALL. And a happier, rested boy this morning.

Relief!

Hurray for a good night your end! Hope you have another tonight! It's hard when they have a cold as coughing and snot make them really grumpy and then they wake up coughing etc. Hope he's better soon.

Last night was ok stayed down until about 4, then had to be rocked back then woke at normal half 6 time. Until I became a mother I loved the lighter evenings. Currently wrestling with one of those gro company blackout blinds- very annoying! It's so light at 7!

Will check in later to see how you're doing :)

I saw the gro company thingy and thought it looked good - part of our lease thingy means we can't change the (crappy white roll) blinds. I ended up going to one of the fabric shops around Times Sq on my way home from work last week and buying masses of blackout fabric, then just threading it over the top of the blind so it hangs down loosely. Now DS's room is so dark I can't find him in it!
I want to buy more for our room, I think. Lovely cheapo, portable version of the gro company's blinds!

That sounds like a good night for you, too - here's hopings things continue to move in the right direction.

You can also buy blackout blinds that u attach with velcro to the window frame - it means no light gets in at all - we have normal blackout roller blinds, and a lot of light still comes in round the edges

Had terrible night- the teething monster was visiting! Temperature, horrid nappy the lot. Poor little lamb.
Will try again tonight, tomorrow is a work day so could do with some sleep all round!

oh heck Pipplin, that's bad timing! DS has a cold which just landed in the last couple of days, and is definitely contributing 2-3 wakenings a night, and making him quite cross. He's sleeping REALLY well, though, and putting up with being rocked/patted back to sleep with reasonable grace. For every 3 times he goes straight back to sleep on his own, one time he has a complete bawling session and needs 3-5 minutes of rocking and walking up and down - but still, the progress from a week ago is unmistakeable!

DH and I are both very, very tired, and splitting the nights so that someone does the first 3-4 hours and someone else the next. Sadly for me - earplugs notwithstanding - I wake every time DS wakes, so while I don't have to get up and do anything, for half the night, I'm still pretty tired. DH sleeps through when it's his turn off watch, which is enviable, but he's knackered cos he's not used to waking up this much with the baby, cos I used to do it all. He's not moaning about it, which is impressive, but also means I can't really whinge myself!

DS is definitely waking less, and self-settling some of the time. If it weren't for the shitty timing of this cold i think he'd be sleeping through, or only waking once. Time will tell!