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Original poster

Still won't go down of an evening at 5 months :(. Are we alone?

28 replies

narmada · 20/03/2011 21:01

Well, that's it really! DS is just 5 months and wants to be asleep from 7 pm, but wriggles and writhes in his sleep till 11 pm so it is pointless putting him down as we are up and down and up and down to him or even worse, he just completely wakes up, won't go back to sleep, is horribly overtired and cries all evening. He's got reflux and we thought he might have a cow's milk protein issue, but he's been treated for both and not much improvement TBH.

I really, really want my evenings back :(. Have a DD too of nearly 3 and so it's pretty much continuous childcare from 6.30 am till 11 pm and it is driving me and my DP a bit bonkers.

Are there many of us out there??!

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sotough · 20/03/2011 21:25

oh no that sounds dire! is your DS in any sort of routine during the day or are you just going with the flow until bedtime? (i mean feeding and sleeping times). Does he have a wind down routine after 5pm (eg, milk, long bath, milk, sleep)? How many hours is he sleeping during the day, and is any of it after 5pm? When he is wakeful after 7pm, does he seem hungry, or not at all?

Original poster
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:29

Yes, I do kind of impose a routine in the day as we learned the hard way that lack of sleep in the day means even worse evenings!

He usually has one sleep in the morning (short), one around lunchtime (longer) and one around 4 pm - short again. In total about 3 hours. None of that is in his cot, can't self-settle, frequently stirs and basically has to be intensively jiggled to keep him asleep. It's very wearing.

After 7, no, I don't think he is particularly hungry as more milk makes it worse.
To be honest, we don't bother with the wind down routine because he just doesn't do winding down. He's either awake and flailing or fast asleep! I am a big, big believer in the bed-time routine but it just seems a bit pointless with him!

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Original poster
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:30

I don't know quite why there were so many !!! in my last message Wink. Got a bit exclamation mark happy.

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sotough · 20/03/2011 21:33

it sounds like you're doing all the right things! i'm sure someone more experienced than me will be along soon with some good advice - i've no idea what to suggest as it's not as if he's not getting enough/getting too much sleep during the day...
My DS (three) was a fabulous sleeper from a very very young age and still is; i was pretty smug about it. However, I have followed exactly the same routines for my DD and she's proving more difficult and a far lighter sleeper in general, so i'm not smug any more. some babies are just easier than others, i guess.

Original poster
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:43

Thanks sotough. I do think there is a large element of luck with babies and sleep. Hope your DD is sleeping better soon. How old is she?

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BertieBotts · 20/03/2011 21:48

5 months is so tiny - I don't think DS was going to bed early in the evening at that age, it was only once he started crawling. It must be exhausting with a toddler as well though. Will he nap on your laps or next to you on sofa or in a bouncy chair, maybe even a sling? Just to enable you to have a bit of an evening together.

Original poster
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:52

Doesn't do bouncy chairs. Will sleep on sofa for 25 minutes only - exactly (yes, we've timed it). Doesn't do slings. Well, he will go to sleep in one if I'm moving but usually wakes when i stop or sit down. He weighs 18lb and he's making me ache all over.

To date I have always just thought that he needs the distraction of movement to get to and stay asleep but now I am wondering how much of it is habitual and whether it's time to get tough. I really cannot go on pacing him around for 5+ hours every day.

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Original poster
narmada · 20/03/2011 21:55

Oddly, ttoday, we have as an experiment not given him his reflux medication just to rule out that as a cause of restlessness. He has not been drinking much today but has been asleep with DP on the bed since about 8 pm. I would hate to think that it's the medication that's been making him restless or giving him cramps or something Confused. But it's probably just a one-off.

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BertieBotts · 20/03/2011 22:34

Hmm, that's interesting. Has he been okay without the medication? Most of the time babies do grow out of reflux, perhaps he's getting to a point where you can cut it down.

Oscalito · 21/03/2011 09:25

I had a lot of trouble getting my baby to sleep until he basically collapsed with exhaustion (he's 16 weeks) and the one thing that worked is putting him down drowsy but on his side, not on his back, propped up along his back with a pillow. He cries for a while but I was told to just keep a hand on him until he calmed and then leave him. He used to flail around on his back like an updended beetle. I then tuck my cardigan around him during the daytime. At night he gets put into his grobag and I feed him to sleep (I know, 'rod for my own back' and all that, but it works!) in the dark room before putting him in his cot. That seems to knock him out. Although now he's started waking really really early.....

vmcd28 · 21/03/2011 09:44

Time to get tough! Read the long post I just added here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1176034-Sleep-training-first-night-I-feel-terrible to see what is working well for us

thaigreencurry · 21/03/2011 09:50

I tried everything to no avail with ds1. Then one day when he was 5.5 months he decided he wanted to sleep upstairs. He was getting really tetchy one evening and I could just tell he wanted to go upstairs and we never looked back after that. It was just luck.

Ds2 went down from the word go but I used a grobag with him whereas I didn't discover grobags with ds1 until he was around 5/6 months. I think grobags help them to feel more secure there have been a couple of times when I have forgotten to put ds2 in his and he won't settle until he is in one.

sedgiebaby · 21/03/2011 14:01

After the laslt nap of the day I get dd to do tons and tons of tummy time, its wearing her right out and she is not putting anything like the fight she normally does. Just an idea!

Original poster
narmada · 21/03/2011 20:20

Tonight I have really, really had enough of DS's sleeplessness.

I have tendonitis in both wrists and backache from the constant pacing in pursuit of sleep for him. I just spent 45 minutes trying to get him to sleep and keep him asleep after which he woke up anyway the minute I passed him to DP for a break. I missed my DD's bedtime, didn't even manage to give her a kiss goodnight and he is still. bloody. awake. Despite being completely knackered and clearly wanting to be asleep.

Tomorrow I am taking him back to the GP again, for about the zillionth time in as many weeks, because he has also stopped eating more than 2oz at a sitting.

I am just so fed up.

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vmcd28 · 21/03/2011 22:17

Narmada, have you tried sleep training or do you always just go with the flow? He WILL get better, I guarantee it, but you have to take drastic measures now, imo, before it gets so bad that it can't be easily fixed.

My ds did this too, when we were still keeping him up til 10ish. We started putting him to bed earlier. Have you tried putting him down at 6 pm or giving him a 5 pm nap? Let us know his routine and what you've tried so far x

vmcd28 · 21/03/2011 22:22

Sorry, just read your post about his routine. Imo, stage 1 is to get him to self settle. As per my previous post, I tried shush /pat, which worked very quickly for us, which I didn't expect. I'd have bet money ds2 would have resisted any attempts at being pushed into a routine

Original poster
narmada · 22/03/2011 15:51

vmcd28 thanks for your posts and sorry been a bit tardy replying. DS has been on a milk-refusal bender and been v hard to deal with.

I do really, really want to do sleep training with him but it feels a bit pointless until his physical discomforts are resolved. My logic is that if he is refusing to feed, then something is really bothering him and to try and to it at the mo would be unfair and probably unsuccessful. I think we just have to suck it up for now and address it when he is better. Off to the GP soon as he has got drastically worse in the last 3 days and there just must be something up with him.

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clarejane · 22/03/2011 21:02

Swaddling really really helped us. Totally transformed the sleep situation! That & a solid wind down / bedtime routine. We also have one of those fitness balls and sitting on that with him in a sling or in arms often helps to calm him. Good luck - I feel your pain!

CamperFan · 24/03/2011 19:52

Poor you, that sounds exhausting. My DS2 wakes lots in the night but does at least go to sleep at 7. I really don't no what to suggest other than what people already suggest, but it sounds like there is something more too it as you suspect. What did the GP say?

Vmcd, , I am thinking of sleep training in a way, but how do I know he is genuinely not hungry?! Ie. When he wakes, only the breast will settle him, but he does feed for a while before dropping off.I try to feed him as much as possible during the day and have started solids, but it is so hard with bfing?

Original poster
narmada · 24/03/2011 20:28

Thanks clarejane, swaddling, he seems to hate it, starts crying now when I lie him down on the swaddling blanket. But... it was a complete godsend with DD1, she was addicted to hers. Bouncing on the edge of the bed is our version of the bouncy birthing ball! To think there are loads of us madly bouncing our babies in pursuit of sleep....

Camperfan the GP said nothing ostensibly wrong with DS, and attributed it to his reflux, which is exactly what I didn;t want to hear as he has already been on max doses of every acid-surpressing medicine known to humankind :(. The paed has palmed us off on a speech and language therapist to help with his feeding issues, but to me that just seems like a sticking plaster to mask a broken leg - it's the underlying issues that need addressing :( :( :( HOpefully he will grow out of it...and soon.

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CamperFan · 24/03/2011 20:43

oh dear. what is the prognosis for reflux - does it get better at a certain age?

Have you tried cranial osteopathy?? V loud white noise/waves?

Original poster
narmada · 24/03/2011 21:13

they tend to outgrow it when they are more upright but poor DS has some minor (we hope!) motor delays so he might take a while to get there, let's hope not though.

Not yet tried CO, keep meaning to give it a go. White noise no match for DS. It's only bouncing that does it, or very vigorous walking and dummy, and even then it's a battle. I need Wine

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MamaChocoholic · 24/03/2011 22:01

narmada you've been so helpful on my reflux thread, I wanted to stop by and say poor you. it does sound so similar to my dt2, who needed to be bounced vigourously, upright in order to go to sleep. amazingly,after the new meds, he has slept for 2+ hours after going to sleep by 8 the last 2 nights (I deliberately don't check the time when they wake at night). this is a record, so I completely agree that you can't sleep train while there's a physical cause keepiing him awake.

when dt2 was really bad, I would wear him in a sling till I went to bed. it meant he was upright, I could jiggle him easily and be around dp/read ds1 a bedtime story etc. have you tried one? a stretchy wrap seemed to keep him secure and be comfortable enough for my shoulders/back.

it's awful, but at least if there's a physical cause that will resolve, you can expect the sleep to improve as it does. when are you planning to start solids?

mewkins · 26/03/2011 09:58

Hiya

I think encouraging to self settle would really help. DD was very much like this and at 3 months we decided that as no one was getting any sleep we needed to do something. We did the baby whisperer pick up put down and it worked well very quickly... and I was certain she wouldnt respond to sleep training as she was so reliant on the bottle to get to sleep. The baby whisperer books say that absolutely all babies will respond to this type of training, just takes some longer than others.

Good luck, you will get there!

Bumperlicioso · 26/03/2011 10:00

Haven't read the thread Narmada but just wanted to sign in on the no evenings! And not through not being sleepy either.

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