4 month sleep regression - what do we DO?

[vmcd28]

Ds2 is nearly 16 weeks. I fear he has hit the dreaded sleep regression. My question is, what do we do? Are we meant to try to comfort him back to sleep, or feed him, or what?

The past two nights, his usual lovely 8-7 sleep has gone weird. Two nights ago he had 8oz of formula, went to sleep at 8pm, then woke at 9.45pm, behaving as if he was starving. He wouldn't settle back to sleep, and was behaving as if he wanted back up to play. Dh made another bottle of formula - supposedly as a plan b - but he had all 7 oz!! He went back to sleep at 11.45pm til his usual 7am. This is the ok option.

However, Last night, he slept well from 7pm till 4.30am. He lay grunting and whining and sucking his thumb for approx 80 mins, then started getting upset. When he started crying, I lifted him but he was licking my shoulder wanting fed, bless him. After a bfeed he went back to sleep for an hour then got up at his usual 7am.

He never settles himself to sleep at bedtime - he relies pn being fed to sleep. Similarly during the day he needs fed to sleep or can get to sleep himself in his swing. However he doesn't usually need us to settle him if he wakes during the night. But last night he clearly woke up fully then needed me to sleep again. This is my fear, that we're going to have to regress back to a getting-up-during-the-night scenario again. Bleurgh.

Does anyone have any advice on what we should do to ride the storm? And how do we encourage him to go back to his excellent bedtime hours?

vmcd. hooray for you and DS2. i hate that furious crying. god the guilt. so i am very impressed indeed that you stuck to it and that it worked. well done you! you have given me enormous hope. i am even looking forward to trying. ha ha. never thought i would say that.

poor DD had her worst night of sleep to date. it started off well. she went down at 7 then woke at 11 and 3 for feeds. then filled her nappy (so loud it woke me up!) so DH changed her and she was not happy at all. she went from pink to red to purple with rage. poor DH, he instantly regretted it. she wouldnt settle at all after that. dont blame her really and ended up sleeping on me until 7 this morning. which meant i didnt sleep because i was a) sitting up and b) terrified of her getting squished or something.

sooooooo, roll on monday when hoepfully her cold will have gone and she will be feeling better and i can start the cot sleeps. i have already been poundng the streets twice today; once for the morning nap and again at lunchtiime and am EXHAUSTED.

good luck with tonight! let me know how it goes.

Eddy, hope tonight's better. It's horrible getting no sleep. It will sort itself out eventually, so try not to let it upset you too much. This is the hardest stage, in my opinion - they're too young to distract or reason with yet (haha, ds1 is nearly 6 and he can't be reasoned with!)
I'm not bad at ignoring the angry cry actually, but I couldn't stick it out if it was the devastated cry he kept doing. And you don't have a choice anyway - if you decide to go for it, you have to stick with it or there's no point. But actually, the stage where I've to settle him before even putting him in the cot is the hardest. He yells and kicks cos he wants to suck to sleep, but once I've been through a few mins of that, it's much much easier and quicker to settle him if he needs picked up again. And the consolation of it all is that he's full of smiles after his sleep, so he's not holding a grudge :)

DS has hit the 4 month growth spurt/ sleep regression here too (though i suspect the 'sleep regression' i'm currently experiencing is nothing more than him needing to eat more often to supplement his growth).

How long does a growth spurt last in your experience?? It's been two days so far, i'm just about feeling human, but can't face it for the long haul!!

Matana, I think it varies, but the more I've read about the 4m regression, it seems that it is partly due to a growth spurt and partly due to their sleep cycles changing.
Is your ds hungrier during the day, or just waking more at night?
My HV said the 4m growth spurt can last a week, although my ds had 3 bad days, which I assume was the growth spurt, but who knows!
From what I've experienced in the past week, getting ds to start settling to sleep by himself and then putting him down for his naps a MAXIMUM of two hours after he wakes up has been the key to this working out for us. He's not overtired and grumpy any more, which means he's more rested at night too

He seems to be eating more per 'sitting' (BFing, and this morning he was feeding for 40 mins, which is not unusual at the moment) and a little, but not a lot more often, during the day. He usually goes 5 or 6 hours from 7pm ish before waking but has woken at 10.30pm for the last 2 nights. Then he's awake again at about 1am and again at about 4. He's definitely hungry though because he's not the sort of baby who cries unless he's hungry (or ill) - and he dive bombs my boobs when he's really hungry rather than just 'peckish'! His daytime naps have been quite normal, though today he's quite grumpy and tired so is sleeping a lot. A couple of weeks ago he had a grumpy, unsettled patch and his daytime naps went to pot but he recovered last week.

He is, and always has been, a great self settler and that hasn't changed though.

Loved your long post vmcd28 (what does that mean?). We are not going so well here now!
DD has always been a terrible night sleeper but things are getting worse and worse with no obvious reason. I wonder whether part of he problem is that she cannot go to sleep unless she is in her Woombie (swaddling) BUT she is such a sucky baby that all day long her fingers are in her mouth. She has a dummy but spits this out a lot and in the Woombie cannot get to her fingers.
I have made a sleeping bag with restricted movement on the arms so she can get to her fingers but we have just tried it and she screamed the place down!
Not really sure what to do - I can settle her very easily now in only 5 mins (or less) but she is waking up every 1-2hrs at night aaaarrrgh!!!!

Any thoughts?

naps still pretty good btw, she gets at least 3 hrs a day but more like 4.

Gummymum, what does what mean...?
What age is your dd? Is she getting overtired? I know that ds sleeps better when he's had a lot of nap time during the day. He usually has to be put down for a nap after around 90 mins of nap time. I believe the longest that a 4mo should be awake during the day is 2hrs at any given time. Is it worth trying to feed her more during the day to try to fill her up to prepare for a longer sleep? Also, if she wants to suck her fingers, then an alternative to the woombie might be the next step. Have you tried swaddling with a shawl, but leaving one or both arms free? What's the max age the woombie can be used until? Presumably you'll have to find an alternative soon in any case?

Matana, tbh I think it sounds like a growth spurt, if hes feeding for longer then waking more at night. How did last night go? This might be one that you have to ride out till his appetite goes back to normal...?

He woke around 11pm and then woke up every two hours apparently starving! He doesn't seem particularly hungry today though so perhaps it's just about over? Hope so! Last night was the most frequent for awakenings since he was newborn, but bizarrely i slept better. I think it's because i got back to sleep quicker between feeds as he re-settled well. I'm hoping it's peaked and things will now improve, but who knows

What does vmcd mean? Am I being thick?!!

She probably is getting overtired as she is only sleeping 8 hrs or so at night. During the day she usually manages 1.5 - 2hrs of awake time but never really any more than that or she gets grumpy. She sleeps quite well in the day often in her cot and always a minimum of 3 hrs, more like 4 in total usually. In bed by 7pm, I am now mixed feeding (going back to work soon and expressing not working for us), so she has 7oz at 10pm. I only feed her once between 10pm and 6am and she feeds 4 hrly during the day (her choice really).
Thinking of letting one arm out - can't be any worse!!!

Not sure what else to do?

Gummy, it doesn't "mean" anything - just a combination of some initials :).

So doesn't she feed during the night - she's waking and you're settling her back to sleep? If it's getting easier to settle her, could it gradually just keep improving till she starts settling herself? Is she crying inconsolably each time she wakes? My ds2 has 3 or 4 bfeeds during the day then he has NINE ounces at 6.30pm. Maybe you could up the bedtime bottle? Or could she have trapped wind during the night? Ds2 often has problems with wind but can now usually get back to sleep after some grizzling and grunting.
Re the daytime naps, ds2 can't last 2hrs between sleeps - if I don't settle him down for a nap the SECOND he starts rubbing his eyes or sucking his fingers or whatever, he'll take ages to settle and won't sleep long. Today he slept a total of 4.5hrs, after having slept 12.5 last night. My point being that your dd possibly needs more/longer naps. Maybe try putting her down for a nap after 90mins, to see if you can settle her before she's visibly tired?

Matana, I think this could be a growth spurt. My ds2 often behaves as if he's starving, when he's just desperately wanting to suck for comfort. Is that possible? Ds2 has calmed down with this recently, as he sucks his thumb now, so he's now able to suck when the need takes him. Starting tnight, write down the times he wakes and for how long, so you can hopefully start to see an improvement over the next few nights. It may not feel like it's getting better, but sometimes keeping a note of things can show that it is? I really don't know, just throwing some thoughts out there

Last night was even worse and at points he was impossible to settle back to sleep whatever i tried - most unusual for him as he's not a particularly fussy baby. He always seems to wake up when we come to bed at the moment, however early that is. And he's started chattering/ babbling really loudly at completely random times, which i'm doing my best to ignore, but DH finds it impossible to sleep through!

I've decided i'm going to feed him whenever he wakes (apart from when he's babbling), even if i'm not certain he's hungry, and co-sleep (when necessary, not for the whole night) until it's over. He knows how to self settle and is still settling well for naps during the daytime, so i think i just need to have faith in him that it's a phase that will pass when his growth slows. I know this isn't what people recommend, but i'm fairly certain he'll get there eventually with no lasting problems - he always has done in the past.

Matana, yes it sounds like a blip, esp if he doesn't usually behave like this. Altho be wary of starting a new habit of feeding during the night and/or cosleeping if that's ultimately not what you want.
Did last night go any better?
We've had two hellish days, although the nights are still ok, touch wood. Ds would go down for his naps but would struggle to get to sleep, so ended up overtired and grizzly. I ended up getting annoyed at him and shouting, then the rest of yesterday upset that I lost it with him. Ugh, the joy of motherhood.

Last night was lots better. He slept for 5 hours from 7pm, woke and had a good feed, then woke at 3.30am and had another really good feed. Then awake for the day at 6.30. Settled really well in between feeds too. I never co-sleep for the whole night, but still do it on the odd occasion he's particularly unsettled so we can both get some sleep. He always goes back to sleeping on his own fine. Once he's over this unsettled patch and i know he's 16lb and capable of going for longer stretches i'll start encouraging him to go for longer between feeds if he doesn't start doing it on his own.

It's so difficult getting them to nap properly isn't it? At the moment i feel tied to the house a bit because if we go out he only catnaps and ends up overtired. I know it's just a phase but i'll be pleased when spring comes and i can at least get into the garden for a bit of daylight! Do you have one of those talk back bby monitors and does your DS respond to shushing? My DS seems to respond quite well to shushing on the talk back, providing he's just grizzling and hasn't lost the plot. Sometimes i can get him to nap for longer that way too.

I felt awful all day yesterday for getting so frustrated with him the night before. It's horrible how sleep deprivation makes you feel resentful towards your LO. All he did yesterday was smile and laugh and i felt like a very bad mum! I'm trying to see these spurts as a very positive thing and remind myself that there must be parents out there who would give anything for their babies to be developing perfectly normally and would welcome the trials that developmental spurts bring, which we all take for granted.

Dd is 7 mo now and regressed awfully at 4 mo. But it was a growth spurt, she needed food...so I fed her through it (breastfeeding so little and often!). And cuddled her, a lot.

She is now back to one or two wakings a night, just needs a pat and a shush, normally only one night feed.

So do what feels right to you, don't feel bad if you are a soft touch like me! Everything I read told me she needed more food at that stage so not to withhold food, even my very old fashioned health visitor agreed.

Thanks vmcd - thought that might be a cunning name that I was missing! No brain here I'm afraid.
We had a slight improvement last night, she had 4 hrs in total of naps yesterday and like you said I tried to get her down the minute she looked tired and watched her carefully from around 1.5hrs after the last sleep.
She is napping now but I think I might have missed the window as she woke up after 45mins and I had to shush/pat her back to sleep. Yesterday she did two 1.5hr sleeps straight through!
I'm now a bit worried that I'm denying her food in the night - she should be able to make up for it in the day if she's hungry shouldn't she? I feed her whenever she asks, she just doesn't ask more often than 4hrlyish.

It's awful when the tiredness causes us to get cross with our DCs but only natural, must try harder to cut myself some slack and remember that things will improve - just dreading returning to work - 5 weeks aaarrgghhh!!

Gummy, I wouldn't worry about the feeding - ds2 sleeps 12 hrs (touch wood) at night and doesn't wake for a feed any more, and he gets either 3 or 4 breastfeeds and 9oz formula during the day, so he's not getting loads of feeds each day, but it's clearly all he needs. If they get a "proper" feed when they're hungry, theres less chance of grazing or top-ups being needed, and remember they've become efficient at bfeeding now (as have you) so they get more in a shorter time now. And as you say, she'd let you know if she wasn't getting enough.
I'd increase the bedtime bottle. If she settles well on 7oz, I'd try 8oz to see what effect that has :). Ds had 9 tonight, and still behaved as if he could have eaten more!!

Matana, glad your night was better, hopefully you're coming out the other side now. Let us know how tonight goes.

Ninkynonker, thanks for the encouragement, it's always nice to hear positive things :)

We had an odd day - ds2 had his third lot of immunisations early this morning, so ds2, me and dh went to the shops, and we expected ds to sleep the entire time. Um, no. He slept a total of 80 mins all day. So he ended up wired to the moon by 6pm. Thank god we'd been out all day - I'd have been too stressed trying to put him down for naps that he wasn't prepared to take! I'm praying that the last three daytime problems are not how things are going to be from now on. Any tips on stopping him fighting sleep? I know he's getting overtired but I've been good at spotting the signs of tiredness for the past week, so why has he started resisting? !

2 weeks after the last set of immunisations and we are just seeing a slight improvement in sleep back to previous!!!

Good luck!

Hello - so we have finally started! DD (18 weeks) has now got over her 4 month jabs (gummymum, it took two weeks her also) and her cold and so today we went cold turkey on the pram and did cot naps only. She has only had one, maybe two, cot naps before and both times I had to trick her as she fights sleeps at the best of time and hates sleeping in her cot in the day. But seeing as she is now waking every hour - every other at best - I am officially desperate and simply too tired to walk her round for the four hours per day that I have been doing to date. So, this morning, head swimming with lack of sleep, I decided enough is enough and we are NOT, absolutely NOT going out in the pram. So, here's how it went:

DD up at 6.30am after waking every hour and sleeping most of the early hours on me

First nap two hours later. Took an hour and a quarter to get her to sleep. I did sh pat when she was complaining when in her cot and then pick up put down when she cried. Cant remember how many times but it was a fair few. She eventually gave in and slept for half an hour. A HUGE success in my book. First cot nap from awake ever. Yay!

Nap 2 was two hours later and took just 30 mins. It was a similar thing, general complaining and some light crying with lots of sh patting and pu/pds. I also turned on some white noise, which is probably cheating but I needed her to sleep two cycles at least, and she did! And, what's more, so did I .

Nap 3 was two hours later and was a bit traumatic to be honest. She started to howl the minute she went in the cot. So I didnt bother with sh pat and just picked up her. But OMG. She was purple with rage for about 10 minutes. And then threw up. Awful. I hated myself. When she calmed down I put her back down and she moaned but didnt cry and I sh pattted and then she fell asleep for 30 minutes.

So, a good day in that we did 3 cot naps. But I am exausted. And also a bit low as I am worried she hates me now and/or feels the trust has been broken. I hate seeing her cry and am normally quite good at helping her calm herself down. But today was much harder. And now she is not her usual happy self. She is quite subdued.

Please let me know if you would have done anything differently in the 3rd nap. And any other tips very gratefully received. Sorry for long email. Needed to off load. And I havent even got to bed time yet. Ha ha. Oh god. It's a long day today.

For the record I am going to do the same tomorrow. I just cant do the constant night waking and teaching her to self soothe in the day is the only way I can think of to encourage her to sleep more at night. But I have to be honest I am having doubts.

Sorry for the long message. Hope you are all having more success.

Well done eddy, you deserve a huge G&T! She does NOT nor ever will hate you for helping her to sleep. They scream because it is all they can do and they are exhausted. Keep going , you can do it! I hope tonight is bearable! We Are ditching the swaddle so I am expecting no sleep tonight. Am hoping in the long run it will help my terrible sleeper! Wish me luck!

Well done eddy. You saying you feel a bit low about your DD crying and that she hates you really struck a chord with me (and actually made me cry!) as i'm feeling a bit like that today with DS. Today was a bad day for napping. We were out and about for his lunchtime nap, but back home for 4pm and it's the first time in weeks he's stubbornly refused to sleep. By 5pm his screaming was wrenching my heart out, nothing would calm him (DH is good at cuddling him to sleep when all else fails, but even this didn't work) so i ended up feeding him just to calm him. This is all very unusual for him. His night times are so hit and miss and it's one thing after another that seems to be unsettling him - jabs, colds, teething, growth spurts - and i just wonder if he'll ever return to 'normal'.

I think the fact that you've had some success today, however painful it has been, speaks volumes. Your DD needs sleep and you are giving her the best possible gift - the gift of independence. Well done and stick with it.