We've made a right mess of things, can anyone help us please?

[Flumptious]

Dh and I have totally messed things up regarding sleep for our two dds. One is four and a half and the other is nearly three.

We are in the ridiculous position now of having one or both of them waking each night at about 11-12ish and coming in with us. One of us will then get out and go to the spare room where the other dd will shortly follow.

It started when I went back to work full time last year and could no longer face taking them back to their own bed and sitting on the floor holding a hand or whatever that months thing was (for the youngest).

I know we've made a rod for our own back, but I was wondering if there is any way that this might sort itself out in time without me having to do anything about it??

I know I sound lazy, I am, but I just couldn't function at work with no sleep and I have no annual leave left.

I do keep thinking I'm going to sort it, but I get up two or three times then think sod it, I just want to be asleep. I know I'm crap, sorry.

You are not crap - you are doing the very best you can and sometimes short term solutions do turn round and bite us on the bum but we have to do these things to get us through - I cant give you any advice as I have a baby - and hes not sleeping either !!

Flump I honestly don't think this will sort itself out. You must be exhausted, I would be.

What do you really want to accomplish?

Why is it ridiculous? If it works for you, I'd say it sounds like a lovely arrangement. Of course, if you'd rather do something different, there's no shame in that either.

Thanks for the replies.

Apple, I hope things get better for you!

DrChristian, I want them to stay in their own beds all night long, but I don't want to go through any crying or upset from any of us!! Like magic I suppose. I am exhausted, we all are. I am sleeping, but it's broken at least twice a night, every night. It's just better than it is if I actively try to sort it!

Angel, it's ridiculous as dh and I never stay in the same bed for an entire night and I'd like to wake up with my husband every now and then. [I can't deny though that I secretly love the night time cuddles and pats on the cheek and smiles which I wouldn't get from dh!!]Also, my eldest now says things like Daddy likes me and I like Daddy but Mummy and dd2 like each other best. Dd2 is a clingon and likes to sleep touching me if possible.

By the way, they'll both go to bed happily and sleep [I sit on the floor next to dd2 but can and do wander off and come back and she'll sometimes nod off on her own]

I think the musical beds you describe is normal for most couples with young children, if not every night then at least some nights a week...most people I know anyway! It depends how much it bothers you and DH....it doesn't sound like it interferes with your sex life (assuming you go to bed some time before the midnight "switch around" and if everybody gets a decent sleep then is there any reason to stress about it now? It is lovely to sleep with your DC's (providing they aren't the kind of sleepers that keep disturbing you) and before you know it they really will grow out of it . You could then, just go with the flow and accept this is the way it works for you and it will change naturally over time.

If, on the other hand, it is really a problem, then suffering for a few nights, repeatedly returning them to their own beds, no discussion, when they come in, is the only way to change it!

agree with sleepwhenidie, sounds pretty much par for the course as far as other couples with young children I know go. They do grow out of it.

Excellent news!! That was what I was hoping for, reassuarance that they grow out of it.

I think I only think about doing something about it when we have people to stay and suddenly don't have a spare bed to use, or when we're going on holiday for the same reason. All of a sudden sleeping 4 to a bed is a shock.

Dh is a morning man so it does hinder things a bit, we manage to make up for it at weekends though.

If you want them to stay in their beds all night you only real option is to rapid return them to their beds when they appear in the night.

That is no chit-chat, lead them straight back to bed, tuck them in, a simple 'it's bed time now' and walk out.

Every Single Time

You will get less sleep initally as you'll have to get up and possibly many times over but you would crack it within a week if you are 100% consistant.

Dr Christian, you really think a week could do it?

I've tried before but have given in after a night as dd2 when she cries and screams is so loud she wakes dd1 and I honestly worry about what the neighbours think. (They've mentioned before about how loud she is!!)

She's also a persistant little thing and I physically struggle to put her in bed as she's a limpet.

They'll both happily go to bed if I get in with them, but then I'm sleeping in a single bed which is when I started getting in the spare double.

I don't suppose you want to come and do it for me?

Yes, I have heard these kinds of stories time and time again and anyone who has really and truly been consistant has cracked it really quite quickly.

Difficult when if she makes noise that upsets the neighbours. Not sure what to suggest there.

How is their bedtime routine? Plenty of time for wind-down, bath and stories and cuddles etc? Are they going to bed early enough as as not be going down overtired? You should be able to settle them and leave the room with them still awake but calm/happy. The having to stay with them or get into bed with them is down to the children and their amount of control over bedtime issues.

Have you tried rewards eg a star chart if they go to bed with no fuss and stay in their own bed all night?

ok this is what we did. it took 3 days.

you and dh sit down and resolve that you are both totally onside: you both feel that you will do what you need to to make sure that your dc stay in bed at night and that you all get sleep in your own beds. you need to really ask each other and yourselves if there is some pay off for this (do you not want sex, or something like that, or do you just love snuggling up with one of your dc's etc). once you have reached consensus that you both are entirely and completely bought into changing what is happening you begin.

when one of your dcs wakes up you calmly, quietly and IMMEDIATELY take them back to bed. you don't talk to them other than to say 'it's nighttime, we sleep in our own beds' and then you leave and go back to bed. you do this as many times as it takes. you don't get angry or say ANYTHING else. you do not engage with them about hwat they are scared of/disturbed by/why they can't sleep.

if you like you can sit down with them the day you decide to start this and explain what is going to happen. we did this with ds but he was older (6 years old).

if you stick absolutely to this, and are prepared for a couple of nights of very little sleep I think it will work very quickly.

hth

briberyrewards have worked with my ds1. Recently he started getting into the habit of coming in to us in the night (which I can't deal with when ds2 usually still wakes for a bottle too). I promised him he could choose a new toy from the shop if he stayed in bed all night every night for a week and it was amazingly effective and habit forming as he continued to stay there after the week was up. Definitely would not work with DD (2.5) though, if she wakes up she doesn't remember/care about things like that.

So maybe you should live with in for another 6-12 months then they blackmail on them both

I started full-time co-sleeping with DS1 when he was 9 months old and was waking up every 45 minutes. I was brilliant. Immediately we were both getting enough sleep and I felt normal again. I just wished I'd been brave enough to do it right from the start. When he was just under 3 and I was expecting DS2 we got him his own bed and put it next to our bed (luckily we have an enormous bedroom!) and he very happily slept in it every night from its arrival. Nearly a year later he asked for his bed to be moved into his own room and has slept in it every single night since. We are now also able to leave him awake and he drifts off when he's ready.

I appreciate our gentle but long haul approach doesn't work for everyone but we have achieved a situation where both our children are always happy to go to bed (DS2 who is just 2 yo asks to be taken bed when he's ready), DS1 never comes into our bed in the night unless he's ill, and we are all getting enough sleep and all without any talk of control, manipulation, bribery, or tears.

One of my friends has 2 children and she and her husband co-sleep with 1 each in 2 seperate bedrooms. I don't think it's that unusual, just many people don't talk about it for fear of what other people might think but it's a natural enough thing to do and those cuddles won't last forever.

that's obviously it was brilliant, not I!