Feeling low about lack of sleep

[pleasethanks]

My DD is 5 months and a shit napper. It was good for a while and I was feeling great and loved being a mum. She pretty much refuses to nap now and the various support threads on here got me thinking. Her lack of napping is very difficult as she needs to nap and ends up horribly overtired and upset and I have not a minute to myself. There is no doubt this has made me very low and I did not feel like this when she napped. So, I in all honesty probably need to see my GP, but I can't help but think my probably PND has been caused/made worse by her desire to fight sleep and had my child had a different character I probably would have been feeling very different. I certainly am not blaming her, it is just the way things are.

Does anyone else feel the same?

you poor thing.
i also feel low due to lack of sleep. i am quite clear that in my case this is exhaustion, not pnd. in my case, counting the days til dd2 is 6mo and i can do some proper sleep training , is helping me get through.

even if you don't sleep train though, it will get better. there's magic date by which it will get better, but at some point in the not too distant future you will get a bit less crying, and a bit more sleep, and feel a bit more normal. each day is a day nearer to that
point, which is something to cheer.

there's no magic date, even

Things were terrible for first 3 months, then she started napping and things were great, now she has stopped napping and things are crap again. And I don't know why. I seem to be able to do nothing to get her to nap again. Just feel hopeless.

have you had a look at Weissbluth's Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child book? it's somewhat maligned as he does include leaving them to cry among his strategies, but the stuff about the science of sleep, napping and tiredness is really good.

how long is she awake between naps?
what is her bedtime?

pleasethanks oh yes, I definitely feel the same as you. I am on my second rubbish napper and it is hard work. I also have PND and I a certain the two are linked. Recently - albeit rarely - my DS has had a few evenings where he has slept - albeit on me - as opposed to fussed and/ or screamed. I have revelled in being able to watch the telly in peace and lo and behold I have finally found my PND starting to lift a bit. I don't think it's a coincidence that this has happened just when my baby appears to be allowing me a bit more headspace.

I also liked the weissbluth book far more than I expected to.

If you need to try some form of sleep training before 6 months you are not a bad mother and your baby won't be damaged by it.

Hi pleasethanks, this really chimes in with my experience so far and you really have my sympathy. The first three months were awful here too and I am still struggling now my beautiful but very sensitive ds is nearly 4 months. First baby obviously and had never met a baby with his temperament or baffling inability to sleep before he arrived...I am now convinced it's because most mums with babies like this never leave the house!
My life is currently ruled by sleep (or rather lack of it). Up multiple times a night, often for several hours, dh in the spare room, in physical pain from the position I end up co-sleeping in...etc

Of course you feel low! Sleep deprivation is indescribably awful and sleep problems affect both your dc's temperament and your relationship with them. I don't have any answers I'm afraid but you are not alone.

Ps I also have PND and like Narmada I have resorted to having ds nap on my lap as it means that I can respond as soon as he twitches, which has helped extend his nap time. It's not great - sitting here now with both boobs out in front of anything with subtitles next to a cold cup of tea I can't reach cos it's on the wrong side but at least I have headspace, which has helped my mood immeasurably. Would this be an option for you in the short term?

another one here but DS is now six months and has suddenly started sleeping better. He used to fight naps like crazy and i tried everying shh pat/PUPD etc and it never worked but then he went and self settled of his own accord - just growing up maybe and finally getting it that sleep is nice?!

Night time, thankfully is okay. It is just daytime that is horrendous and I just don't know what to do to get her to nap, when she did it before. I dread getting up and starting the day at the moment

So much sympathy pleasethanks. My first was like this - my second is also a litte this way but not nearly as bad.

The best advice I got was from a MNer called funnypeculiar who suggested I dropped everything else and just concentrated on getting him to nap by any means for a week. In my case that meant the sling, from morning until night. But it really helped us turn a corner because he was so overtired that the overtiredness fed on itself and made it even harder for him to fall asleep. Nights were OK because he was exhausted :(. Apart from the benefits to him of catching up on sleep, it was blessed relief for me to give myself permission to stop pissing about with shush pat and the holy bloody grail of putting him down "sleepy but awake" - that stuff's irrelevant to someone with an exhausted baby, no matter how well-meaning the advice.

It might be worth a try - and if nothing else hang onto the fact that most babies do start to improve around 5-6-7 months of age and you're not far off that now :)

Hi pleasethanks, I think we have been on other sleep threads together. I know how you feel and I did end up getting ADs as I have been feeling so low. I can't change the lack of sleep but am hoping ADs will help me cope with it better.

Oh and those of you stuck on the sofa with sleeping babies you must invest in a camping mug, keeps your tea piping hot till you can reach it!

Thanks everyone. doric I actually did that in the getting her to sleep my any means for a couple of weeks intially to get her napping and guess I maybe need to try that again. Just had forgotten as my brain is such much.

Got ADs now. Not sure how they will solve the issue of her not napping, but maybe I will just care less!

And to make it all worse and she is now not eating

Now, i am not in favour of unneccesarily medicating kids but have you tried a dose of calpol to see if that helps at all on either the sleep or food front? Just to rule out teeth or some other non-specific pain...

Guess it could just be distractibility on both fronts. My DD was terrible like that - just so bloody nosy she could neither eat nor sleep in the day. Deep sympathy from me.

Nope, tried that and made no difference. She wouldn't even take her bedtime bottle. FFS

Thought you would have. Poor you. It's hard. Hope things get better soon, sending you much sympathy.

pleasethanks I am exactly the same. I feel so down. I never have a second to myself (I MN while bfing!). I spend all day and all night trying to make sure DS sleeps. Every outing or social interaction - even a quick hop to the shops, or having tea with my NCT pal who lives two streets away - has to be organised around his naps to ensure he doesn't go into overtired meltdown. I never get a break because I bf and am crap at expressing, and only DH and I can get him to sleep. I look like shit, my house is a mess, I have been on mat leave 6 months and need to start negotiating my return to work and organise childcare, but how and when? I don't even get to shower some days.

I desperately wanted a baby - I mc'd the month before DS was conceived and was devastated - yet now I almost feel stupid for kidding myself that I could cope with a baby. I have these irrational fears that DH will leave, because his wife is permanently knackered, stressed and tearful. He comes home from work and puts DS to bed, we eat and go straight to bed at 9pm. All we talk about is how we're going to get DS to sleep, what time we last put him down etc.

Sorry, that ended up being a bit of a rant. Suffice to say I know exactly how you feel and you're not alone.

Count, DS did that to our lives. By 1 he could be put in his cot sleepy. At 3 he self-settles beautifully and goes to bed without complaint. We have other sleep issues with him but it now seems they're health-related and hopefully will be sorted soon. But hang on in there, it does get easier. So all-consuming though, this thread brings it back to me :(

Yep same here :)! I feel shocking and out of control, my life revolving around my 6 mth olds sleep (lack of) and eating. At 3.5 months all was rosy with a sleeping boy but from Christmas that has all gone pear shaped and I too sit with boobs out unable to reach my cold cup of tea!

Count, my first DD was just as you describe - my whole life revolved around getting her to sleep, to make sure she wasn't completely overtired. DS is the same. I just breed em that way - and reflux doesn't help things.

When DD got to about 6 or 7 months, there came a day when I just could not bear another 24 hours of the same. I'd truly had enough. I put her in her cot and stayed with her, with a hand on her tummy, until she went to sleep. SHe was livid, really screamed, and it took a looong time (e.g., 2 hours plus). I also think in fact my presence just made her crosser, but it made me feel better about not leaving her alonen. The next time I put her down, it didn't take as long. The next, shorter still. By the fourth time she went down and put herself to sleep, which was a massive improvement and I felt utterly liberated that breastfeeding was not the only way she could fall asleep. This is the method that Elizabeth Pantley recommends as a 'last resort' strategy if you have tried no-cry, it hasn't worked, and/ or you are at complete breaking point and getting to the point of resentment. But it may not be for you, which is totally fair enough.

Now, my DD was definitely a child who was a 'tension increaser'- e.g., got more worked up by crying so I dind't think that kind of method would work. But it did. I won't say we didn't have any problems after that but it really did mark a major turning point for us. By 9 months she was generally taking fewer, longer naps, and wakening in the night only when she was hungry (she really was - big lass, no interest in solids).

Now, my DS is another matter. He is 18 weeks and terrible day/ evening sleeper. I have said to myself that I am going to do the same with him as I did with his sister if he is still appaling when he reaches 6-7 months or so.

Yep Count and narmada all sounds very similar.

In your approach did you pick her up at all, or just leave her in the cot? Must have taken nerves of steel

Did not pick her up at all. Had previously tried the infamous pick up put down but she got more and more and more worked up. As did I. And knackered. As did I. On one occasion I did PUPD anout 200 times.

Nerves of steel - well, I don't know about that, I was just so utterly, utterly fed up of being governed by naps. I also had horrible tendonitis in my wrists from so much feeding to sleep/ cradling, couldn't even get dressed in a pain-free manner and had consequently being taking so much ibuprofen to get through the days that I also gave myself gastritis. Enough was enough!

God narmada, that sounds awful, no wonder you were fed up! Interestingly, a friend of mine did the same thing at 6 months or so and it worked very well on her DS. We are attempting pu/pd this weekend, but DS is also a tension increaser so suspect it won't work. If not, I might have to try what you describe. He regularly cries for upwards of half an hour anyway when going to sleep, even with us cuddling/rocking/walking/shushing/patting like crazy.

It was pretty awful! It's been interesting as my daughter's grown up and her personality has emerged. She is still extremely (e.g., a bit too much at times) tenacious and once she has her way of doing things there is no changing her mind - and she has the memory of an elephant. In hindsight I can see why she was such an extreme creature of habit as an infant, and why it took a fairly brutal approach to get her to sleep in another way than using the boob.

count good luck with PUPD and take solace in the fact that if it's not completely succesful there are other things you could try if push came to shove.

My son also cries when we're trying to get him to sleep, so sympathy. Have had success with bouncing on the edge of our bed quite vigorously, in the dark, but god it makes me fed up sitting there doing that for hours on end. AND he invariably needs a repeat performance every time he comes into a light sleep cycle!