Help me get my evening back with a 5 month old!

[Bumperlicious]

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and has rarely gone down in the evening. I try every night. After dinner between 6 and 7 I take her upstairs, change her, have a lite play then swaddle her up to feed her.

Usually I am there for 2 hours while she feeds and sleeps on and off. After 2 hours or so I try and put her down. Very occasionally it will work, sometimes she will go down for an hour. Usually not at all. I've started to try leaving her to cry for 5-10 minutes. That has worked once or twice. Then what happens is we usually get her up and dh looks after her for up to an hour till we go back up and try again, usually for 1.5 hours. She eventually goes down at 11.30.

I have hardly any baby free time. She still wakes up 1-3 times after that. I'm fed up, done in. The one time she went down last week I felt so much better, I had a bath, read my book, it was so relaxing. It made me realise what a drain this is at the moment.

Any advice? She is ebf btw and I don't want to wean till 6 months or so.

Bumperlicious, I understand how important it is to have some time to yourself in the evenings. My DD used to be quite unpredictable in the evenings. We now have a very strict bedtime routine in place and we do not deviate from it at all. It is the only time of day where we are strict and it has really paid off:

6.15pm massage
6.25pm bath
6.45pm story and porridge (I undertand your DD is not weaning yet
7pm breastfeed

My DD is 10 months old so of course she is on solids and this alters things slightly as she no longer cluster feeds in the evenings. However, I think that if you implement a really good bedtime routine now it will really pay off. Once my DD is out of her bath she stays in her bedroom. I recently invested in a comfy chair in her room and we sit in this to give her story time and feed her. If she wakens at all, we still stay in her room. I take in my phone for the internet and a book on nights when she is unsettled, as it can be quite lonely sitting in a bedroom for ages. After her bath her bedroom light is quite dull (we use a table lamp) and everything is quiet and peaceful - no playing or carrying on, but cuddles and singing etc. My DD will often stay latched on but not actually feed. We started using the pantley pull off method a few months ago and this ahs helped her to self settle.

Not sure if this will help, sorry!

Oh some typos sorry

I know how you feel but honestly I would not bother taking her upstairs between 6 and 7 unless you are actively enjoying those 2 hours. DD2 varies her sleep time but I can't bear sitting up there in the half light on my own, so I just feed and let her sleep on me on and off in the evenings. Sometimes she'll go down in a carrycot downstairs and then I'm off for the bath etc.

You could do the whole routine but later so she associates the routine with sleep and then gradually bring it earlier?

agree with plansitter. I would do the routine later. I was putting dd down at 7 and she was getting up an hour later so I then started her bath/massage/song/feed/bed routine at 8, letting her have a nap on me at 6. she was asleep by 9. I then started gradually moving it back so now routine starts at 7 and asleep by 8.

Another one with shall we say a "sensitive sleeper"!

What time is your daughters last nap, and what time is she generally "up for the day"?

My DS is up at 6am/ max 7am (after multiple wake-ups) but I reckon at this age 10 hours overnight is good going - so would expect an 8pm bedtime, and that seems to be falling into place.

I expect bedtime to get earlier as he gets older and takes more night sleep, rather than mornings get later!

I make sure he gets last nap, even though it is a right pain at teatime, and then he generally settles 2 hours after that.

Sounds like your DD is having last nap at 8/8.30pm, then ready for bed by 11.30pm. If that seems to be the case,I wouldn't do bath and bed until later, perhaps gradually bring it backwards, unless you have leeway to start mornings earlier....

Probably a load of rubbish, but at the moment, I spend most of my waking hours obsessing about sleep, naps and desperately focusing on the future!!!

Thanks for the replies. Mornings vary depending on how the night has gone, and day time naps are hit and miss. The problem is she is tired and crabby at 6-7 and does nap on me. Today will be interesting as we have been out today and dd slept in the car 5.30 till 6.30.

Just been trying to get dd down again for two hours. She has napped for about 20 mins since 9.30am so v tired. She was sleeping/feeding on me for two hours. Every time I thought she was asleep I would try and delatch her she would complain. I'm done though so I have just put her in her hammock and she is screaming. I dont know what else to do. I have had NO time to myself today & she was up at 11.50, 3.30 and 7am. I am fucking done with this.

I hear you and feel your pain. My DS was awake from 5am, so being paranoid I have spent most of the day getting him to try and nap.

He has screamed every time - I have lost my rag...my whole life revolves around naps - 30 minutes of feeding/rocking for a 25 minutes nap...

I have to sit in my bedroom, so that I can pull him off and put him down on the bed next to me. If he moans, I shush loadly in his ear and try and hold his arms from flailing around, and I get some success that way.

but I know my nights will be even worse if I don't try.....I KNOW naps are the key to it all at this stage. Once they are bigger the early bedtime can take over!

My only slight excitement is that my one is finding his thumb/fingers. At every opportunity he is being praised for shoving any part of his hand in his mouth - it made a huge difference to DS1's sleep.

Any success with your DD and a dummy?

No, doesn't like the dummy. Does like her fingers but is still swaddled to sleep. She doesn't sleep if not swaddled, have no idea how to progress from the swaddling.

i agree with previous posts, later bedtime might do it. i used to try and put mine to bed at seven, but he wasnt having any of it. so i moved it to half seven and it seemed to improve things a lot. he isnt perfect now but he does seem more ready to accept that its bedtime.

She definitely gets hungry/tired around that time. Maybe I should just feed her downstairs.

I really do feel your pain. Is she having a bath with your younger child in the evening? I have found that really wipes DD2 out so she will sleep quite easily but can only rarely do it because DP isn't usually back for bath time and it's too horrific on my own (DD1 only just 2 so can't be left still).

5 months is still pretty young and I would say concentrate on what helps you cope rather than getting DD into a routine. For me that means feeding/cuddling DD2 downstairs all evening and taking her to bed with me (not co-sleeping. At least that way I can watch telly and eat something.

I have Healthy Sleep, Happy child by Weisbluth. Although I don't want to follow some of his "extinction" methods the book is brilliant for explaining how sleep develops in babies, and I have been holding onto this...

He explains that colicky babies will take longer to reach sleep maturity, which in any event doesn't start to establish until after 4 months.

After this point, REM sleep will start to kick in earlier and thus enable a swifter put-down, the first day-time nap doesn't really kick-in until at least 5 months.

He does advocate REALLY early bedtimes for the overtired - 5pm if neccessary.

So hang in there.....

I have no idea about swaddling, but in the hospital the midwives managed to swaddle DS2 with a hand available to suck! Is that possible at all?

Feeling your pain - have a similar situation, and posted here about 1.5 months ago for advice.

I also have a good routine, but DD still likes to feed on and off for about an hour and a half before she will go into real sleep, and then will stay asleep for 4 hours -if I am there- but only about 25 minutes -if I am not-

This means I go to bed when DD does (made this time 8.30 so I don't go to sleep until about 10pm after her longest feed) and have no time to myself or with DH at all. I do take a laptop or book to bed with us mind you.

I figure its something she will grow out of. Maybe by the time she is 3. I dunno. Past caring at this stage. Mental, I know.

Tried taking dd up just before 6 today. Put her down when I thought she was asleep. She woke up but I managed to get her to sleep by bouncing her hammock. Lasted about half an hour. Tried to feed her off to sleep again but when I put her down she woke up again. Tried bouncing her off again but no joy and dh up there now.

Really fucked off. Have no child free time. Stupid admin stuff is building up like forms and bills etc just stuff that needs doing. Hate not having any time to myself. Just don't know what I am doing wrong :(

bumper no major advice, but I feel your pain. My DS1 is a bit of a sleep nightmare all round. He is nearly 14 weeks. One thing I have started doing over the past 2-3 weeks that I think is making a difference is being religious about naps. I put him to nap anytime between 45 mins and 1.5 hrs after he wakes up. This sounds ridiculously short, but some days he is ready to go down after 45 mins, especially is the nap before has been a short one (less than 45 mins). Sometimes I can get him to nap in his hammock, but more often than not in the sling - at this stage I don't care where it is as long as it happens.
I would say he is getting probably about 3-4 hours sleep in the daytime (through major stress on my part and a fair bit of screaming on his) BUT he has now started settling by about 8.30pm, which is a huge improvement to before when I had to have him in the sling until 11pm. I do the whole bedtime routine and it still takes him up to an hour to settle and then he sometimes wakes up on and off for the first hour, but it seems to be heading in the right direction.

I also recommend the Weissbluth book and I also like some of the Baby Whisperer sections about sleep. If you haven't looked already, the website is useful. General premise is that sleep begets sleep and the whole nap thing gets easier. I do remember a similar stage with my DD1 and by 6 months she had fallen into much more of a pattern as per the Weissbluth book.

Oh dear, sorry. Completely sympathise. You're not doing anything wrong (as you know). It's just a bit shit. But it'll get better (as you also know).

Oh god, bumper I totally sympathise. We are the same. DS is 19 weeks nearly and I just cannot put him in his cot till 11 pm otherwise we are up and down all evening. He is clearly very tired by 7 pm but wriggles and writhes in his sleep until 11 pm. The only thing I have found helps at all is to be religious about naps - that means letting him sleep on me for around 3-4 hours a day, and me having to get up and pace around and around the room if he stirs (which he always does - it's a real effort to get him to sleep and stay asleep).

As soon as we hit 6 months, if things are no better and he still has no self-soothing skills, we have decided we are doing controlled crying. I can just about bear the prospect of doing it until that point - it helps me to have a cut-off in my head.

Have you tried cutting out dairy from your diet, bumper? Could it be there is a physical cause for your DD's erratic sleep? That's the case with my DS but we are slowly getting it sorted and I am hoping this will make all the difference.

Weissbluth is basically of the cry-it-out from 4 months school of thought, so if you don't fancy that then you mightn't find his book too inspiring. I did however find it had lots of other interesting things to say about baby sleep.

You sound exhausted.... :(
You have my sympathy - I dread evenings. What we ard trying is an earlier bedtime routine. Bath between 5 and 5.30 Also I think I got into a habit of offering the breast every time DD woke, thinking she was cluster feeding. Now, when she wakes between 7 and 10pm I take DD out of crib, shush and pat her back gently. (no talking) Also run finger down her nose so she closes eyes. If she wakes again soon after, I just put my hand on her stomach until she settles. She seems to be getting the message but no two nights are the same, eh?! Good luck :)

Still no joy. Tonight tried feeding her on the bed lying down for an hour but she woke up. Then tried to put her in her hammock, bouncing her with the mobile on. Tried leaving her for 10 mins then feeding her again. All no joy. I'm so fed up. Tried starting her on porridge in the evening but she's not interested.

Bumper "Just don't know what I am doing wrong" - nothing! Why do we with crap sleepers always assume its our fault for doing or not doing something?
Some babies sleep, some cry, some like TV, some have blue eyes.........etc. etc.
The key is probably the daytime naps so I would focus on those - do everything you can to get good sleep in the day and do a routine in the eve even if it doesn't work at first - do it the same, the same, the same, for at least a week or two until you decide it's not working. Think carefully about what you want and go for that so there won't be a new problem to solve once this one gets better (and it WILL get better).
Good luck!

Hiya,
just stumbled across this thread whilst googling early bedtimes. I have a 9week old and was wondering when we should start trying to get her down at 7ish.

Anyhoo, I just wanted to say about the daytime naps. Invest in a good sling or soft-structured carrier. My DD has all her daytime naps on me in hers and it's made a world of difference. The 30-45min nap is a killer, and in the carrier, she does wake after that time, but just goes back to sleep again. I can get on with whatever I want to do, or just sit down and watch tv, etc. And no fuss with swaddling, shushing, patting, etc.

K.xx